2015 Papal visit

Launcher wrote: The people asking for SEPTA to get them to work Sep 26 & Sep 27 are absurd. This weekend is about the Pope, not about preserving people's routine.

And here I thought we had separation between church and state. Is all that taxpayer money going to SEPTA to help people commute to work, or to support only those who practice a particular religion?

NorthPennLimited wrote:Today's generation as all about ME, ME, ME.

From the moment they wake up, they post narcissistic photos of their breakfast on their Facebook, and send news updates about themselves all day long as if anyone cares. Everyone has some degree of the Kim Kardashian / Paris Hilton syndrome.

Nobody thinks about the greater good of their community or country anymore.

That, and the fact there are too damn many lawyers. I'm surprised Allen Rothenberg hasn't started a class action lawsuit against SEPTA yet (because the Pope is violating the personal freedom to commute to work on the weekend)

NPL:

I will be the first to reply to these observations:

1-There has always been a percentage of self-centered people - they are more noticeable then ever today thanks
to internet technology and social media...

2-That is why I have no real interest in Facebook, Instagram and other social media - I am one who does NOT
believe in posting any kind of personal information in any manner - especially if it can come back to haunt you...

3-There is a significant amount of people who DO care about their City, Town and Country - but unfortunately
there is also many that do not care - and that's the problem...

4-Allen Rothenberg is a personal injury attorney - the only case that he would possibly have against SEPTA is
here on the grounds of hurt feelings ( ) and the thought of legal action against SEPTA for not honoring
any regular passes to ride RRD trains on the Papal Visit weekend should be quickly and firmly dismissed...

We will all see the result of how SEPTA handles the huge amount of riders expected during the WMOF week and
Papal Visit weekend from Monday September 21st onward and everyone will breathe the proverbial "sigh of relief"
when this week finally passes into history...

MACTRAXX

silverlinerfan22 wrote:Maybe to eliminate the perception that they are screwing the regular passholders (some of which need to get to work that day), SEPTA should allow anyone purchasing a weekly or monthly trailpass to get a $10 credit if they turn in a papal pass with their expired pass. A Saturday and Sunday papal pass would allow the maximum $20 credit for a new pass. Just a thought.

It's just my 2¢ but that seems to be the "least worst" action SEPTA could take. A fare credit wouldn't affect any part of their plans for the weekend itself, but would at least smooth over some of the perception that they're shafting those people who do need to go to work.

I'm already hearing stories about companies making alternative arrangements for their employees, which should minimize the number of people who'll still have to rely on SEPTA. Even if it's just a handful (let's hope!) they're going to have a difficult enough time without the insult of paying double. SEPTA could offer the credit as a gesture of good will while keeping everything else as it stands.

loufah wrote:And here I thought we had separation between church and state. Is all that taxpayer money going to SEPTA to help people commute to work, or to support only those who practice a particular religion?

Thank you.

loufah wrote:

Launcher wrote: The people asking for SEPTA to get them to work Sep 26 & Sep 27 are absurd. This weekend is about the Pope, not about preserving people's routine.

And here I thought we had separation between church and state. Is all that taxpayer money going to SEPTA to help people commute to work, or to support only those who practice a particular religion?

He is also the Sovereign of Vatican City.

Would the city operate differently if the Queen of England scheduled a visit? (along with a million of her fans for a meeting)

Or *anyone* with a million of their fans for that matter?

JeffK wrote:

silverlinerfan22 wrote:Maybe to eliminate the perception that they are screwing the regular passholders (some of which need to get to work that day), SEPTA should allow anyone purchasing a weekly or monthly trailpass to get a $10 credit if they turn in a papal pass with their expired pass. A Saturday and Sunday papal pass would allow the maximum $20 credit for a new pass. Just a thought.

It's just my 2¢ but that seems to be the "least worst" action SEPTA could take. A fare credit wouldn't affect any part of their plans for the weekend itself, but would at least smooth over some of the perception that they're shafting those people who do need to go to work.

I'm already hearing stories about companies making alternative arrangements for their employees, which should minimize the number of people who'll still have to rely on SEPTA. Even if it's just a handful (let's hope!) they're going to have a difficult enough time without the insult of paying double. SEPTA could offer the credit as a gesture of good will while keeping everything else as it stands.

JK, SF and Everyone:

This kind of compromise could well be a positive way for SEPTA to reach out to many loyal RRD riders that will be
inconvenienced on the Papal Visit weekend - a fare credit of some kind is a good idea-making me think of a Beatles
song lyric "We can work it out" (life's too short...) or a credit of some type towards a future pass...

As many of us understand and are noticing SEPTA is in a no-win situation concerning the WMOF week and the
Papal Visit weekend especially since outside interests (The Feds and the WMOF organizers) are controlling how
Philadelphia's transit system operates during this week...Just remember this: "You can't please all of the people
all of the time" which is very true concerning the WMOF week and Papal Visit...

MACTRAXX

loufah wrote:And here I thought we had separation between church and state. Is all that taxpayer money going to SEPTA to help people commute to work, or to support only those who practice a particular religion?

Nothing in the constitution says there is to be separation between church and state - just that no law will establish a national religion and to not prohibit the free practice of any religion. If an event is planned and the forecast calls for an area to experience a drenching of visitors, govt agencies have to plan for such a potentially record setting deluge - no matter what the organization: religion, hate group, sports, concerts, etc... Allocating assets and developing plans to accommodate such an event has to be conducted. The city wanted this event for the exposure and economic impact - now they have to deliver. If an organization of puppy kickers decided to hold an event in Philly and it was projected that over a million people will travel for a mass puppy kicking event, the city would have to develop a plan and accommodate the event. Imagine tax payer money supporting a bunch of people kicking puppies; oh the horror!

Me personally, I'm not catholic, could care less about this event, and fortunate that I can get the hell out of dodge that week and will.

Im a bit late here....but WTF?

I live in NJ (New Brunswick), dont have a car...Im not allowed to attend? I know SEPTA tries to make it as hard as possible for people in NJ to visit Philly, but come on!

Anyone from NYC is out of luck?

They are seriously not getting NJT to run their 11-car bilevels into Philly from the NEC? SEPTA doesnt have capacity on their toddler-toy 4-car trains, sure, but NJTransit is an agency that actually has rolling stock available to carry more than 70 people at a time.

Theres an enormous parking facility at Hamilton that will lay empty?

Can someone tell the Pope to instead visit a city that can run a competent operation?

Launcher wrote: The people asking for SEPTA to get them to work Sep 26 & Sep 27 are absurd. This weekend is about the Pope, not about preserving people's routine. Schools are already closing Friday and Saturday and only essential personnel will be required to make it into town. These personnel become an employer's responsibility, and many of them will have cots and extended shifts to help make this work. Non-essentials will not only not be required to work, I can guarantee many offices will be locked and no one will be working.

Offices will be closed, sure. At the end of the day, the paper being pushed doesnt matter.

Have you considered that there are thousands and thousands of people who work in the service industry and need to get into the city?

Who do you think staffs all the restaurants, bars, water stands, security lines, etc etc?

People making $9 an hour cannot afford these restrictions.

jamesinclair wrote:Im a bit late here....but WTF?

I live in NJ (New Brunswick), dont have a car...Im not allowed to attend? I know SEPTA tries to make it as hard as possible for people in NJ to visit Philly, but come on!

Anyone from NYC is out of luck?

They are seriously not getting NJT to run their 11-car bilevels into Philly from the NEC? SEPTA doesnt have capacity on their toddler-toy 4-car trains, sure, but NJTransit is an agency that actually has rolling stock available to carry more than 70 people at a time.

Theres an enormous parking facility at Hamilton that will lay empty?

Can someone tell the Pope to instead visit a city that can run a competent operation?

Launcher wrote: The people asking for SEPTA to get them to work Sep 26 & Sep 27 are absurd. This weekend is about the Pope, not about preserving people's routine. Schools are already closing Friday and Saturday and only essential personnel will be required to make it into town. These personnel become an employer's responsibility, and many of them will have cots and extended shifts to help make this work. Non-essentials will not only not be required to work, I can guarantee many offices will be locked and no one will be working.

Offices will be closed, sure. At the end of the day, the paper being pushed doesnt matter.

Have you considered that there are thousands and thousands of people who work in the service industry and need to get into the city?

Who do you think staffs all the restaurants, bars, water stands, security lines, etc etc?

People making $9 an hour cannot afford these restrictions.

1. Trenton closing was the thing that shocked me the most about the modified rail schedule (shortly followed by Jenkintown/Glenside).

2. Better get an amtrak ticket from Trenton now, if you're serious. They will sell out. "Anyone from NYC" should, too. As of today, megabus won't even sell a ticket from NYC to Phila on that Thurs, Fri, Sat or Sun which means there may be severe restrictions no matter what mode of transportation you prefer.

3. The concern about people making $9 an hour is dignified, but this is a one time event, and working that weekend is optional. The term "Essential personnel" and "$9 an hour" do not overlap much. When security and food vendors worked long shifts for the inauguration and the olympics they did not make merely $9 an hour, did they? I expect there to be potential for a lot of savvy people to make a lot more than $9 from this event. I expect certain restaurants of the area to be closed because they can't afford to pay their employees enough to cross the 4 mile fence. Others will likely capitalize on increased sales, and perhaps pay their employees a bonus. Tipped employees, including those at hoteliers, should make out better, too.

jamesinclair wrote:I live in NJ (New Brunswick), dont have a car...Im not allowed to attend? I know SEPTA tries to make it as hard as possible for people in NJ to visit Philly, but come on!

Anyone from NYC is out of luck?

Yes, because a car or SEPTA/NJT are the only two ways to travel between these two points.

jamesinclair wrote:Have you considered that there are thousands and thousands of people who work in the service industry and need to get into the city?

See above

jamesinclair wrote:At the end of the day, the paper being pushed doesnt matter.

Says you, hippies, and buddhist monks.

jamesinclair wrote:Theres an enormous parking facility at Hamilton that will lay empty?

I'm sure there are plenty of non-catholic Hamiltonians that like to enjoy a day into NYC, so I'm sure there should be some cars in the facility during those two days.

the sarge wrote:

jamesinclair wrote:I live in NJ (New Brunswick), dont have a car...Im not allowed to attend? I know SEPTA tries to make it as hard as possible for people in NJ to visit Philly, but come on!

Anyone from NYC is out of luck?

Yes, because a car or SEPTA/NJT are the only two ways to travel between these two points.

jamesinclair wrote:Have you considered that there are thousands and thousands of people who work in the service industry and need to get into the city?

See above

jamesinclair wrote:At the end of the day, the paper being pushed doesnt matter.

Says you, hippies, and buddhist monks.

jamesinclair wrote:Theres an enormous parking facility at Hamilton that will lay empty?

I'm sure there are plenty of non-catholic Hamiltonians that like to enjoy a day into NYC, so I'm sure there should be some cars in the facility during those two days.

Hamilton and Princeton junction have a massive number of permit holders from across the river, more than half at Hamilton from my estimate stemming from several times hunting for a space. Ended up in the gravel lot every time on the weekdays.

I personally think this plan to bypass major (read popular) stations is stupid, and I see the system choking because there will be masses of people at fewer stations. Anyone who rides a train can tell you that large crowds & transit means a huge mess. That's just my outside lay-person opinion, feel free to take with grains of salt.

Launcher wrote: 3. The concern about people making $9 an hour is dignified, but this is a one time event, and working that weekend is optional. The term "Essential personnel" and "$9 an hour" do not overlap much. When security and food vendors worked long shifts for the inauguration and the olympics they did not make merely $9 an hour, did they? I expect there to be potential for a lot of savvy people to make a lot more than $9 from this event. I expect certain restaurants of the area to be closed because they can't afford to pay their employees enough to cross the 4 mile fence. Others will likely capitalize on increased sales, and perhaps pay their employees a bonus. Tipped employees, including those at hoteliers, should make out better, too.

I see youve never worked in the service industry. 2 million potential customers means mandatory overtime. You either show up, or youre fired. So yes, if you work at 7-11, you are considered essential personnel because saying "I cant make it" to your boss is not an option.


The other big concern is that theyre planning a transit service around people who drive. And thats it.

Do you live walking distance from a station thats being closed? How do you get into the city? The assumption is that anyone who wants to get into the city has a car that can take them to a designated park and ride.

I completely get the logic behind skipping stations - theres no point in waiting for a train that will be 100% full at the first stop and cant pick you up. Thats fine. But usually in that kind of scenario, you hop onto a reverse train and ride around. Thats not possible under this plan.

What kind of transit planning involved shutting out people without cars!?


So is there any indication that SEPTA reached out to NJ Transit on through-running NEC trains express from Trenton to 30th? Or did they just shrug their shoulders and decide its not their state, not their problem?

I dont see how asking people to get off a 11-car multilevel train and transfer into the worlds smallest light rail line vehicles is an option.

Bottom line is SEPTA and the city and whoever else involved developed a terrible plan for these two days. It's totally absurd that there will be no connection between NJT and SEPTA for this event. If Trenton could not accommodate the crowds, Hamilton would have been the next logical place to setup some sort of transfer.

This reminds me a lot of the bicentennial when Rizzo told everyone to stay away.http://www.phillymag.com/news/2015/07/1 ... nial-flop/

Launcher and Everyone:

I believe why SEPTA is not serving Trenton is due to the distinct possibility that NJT will operate some trains
through from NEC points Trenton and north direct to 30th Street - that demand will definitely be there and then
some - remember that some NJT crews working the Newark Division are qualified into Philadelphia including
the Atlantic City Line and having extra equipment on the two Papal Mass days will make this option easier...

I noticed the mention about taking Amtrak TRE-PHL and more then likely Amtrak will be charging their highest
price peak fares during the Papal Visit weekend meaning if you don't buy far in advance one may not be able
to purchase tickets when trains sell out - ALL Amtrak trains including the Keystone service is reserved for that
weekend no doubt due to expected very high demand...

Megabus and other discount bus carriers may have big delays and detours getting into Philadelphia depending
on which highways are open or closed and those that originate/terminate near 30th Street Station will be affected depending on what access they can use to serve their regular stopping point...

Another factor that no one has mentioned is the possibility of groups chartering trains from Amtrak, NJT and other
operators to travel to Philadelphia for the Papal Mass weekend - after reading that the City estimates 5000 to 6000
buses may be chartered for these events - trains could have an advantage depending where they can be yarded
and serviced for those who are willing to entertain this travel option...

It would not surprise me if groups approach SEPTA to try and charter trains but here as we all realize SEPTA has
all that it will be able to handle taxing their available RRD equipment to the limit that weekend...

In closing we all may see unprecedented rail service operations for this event and it will be interesting to see
how these arrangements will go - hopefully as good as can be expected noting the sheer demand for the
Papal Visit weekend - again let's hope for the best...

MACTRAXX

Mr Mactraxx, I would really hope what you're proposing could happen but would it require SEPTA or Amtrak to provide crew assistance? While it certainly seems ideal and there is sound reasoning for NJT to offer "clocker" type service on the NEC to help supplement the Amtrak schedule, the fact of the matter is SEPTA has been issuing conservative forward looking statements, while NJT has been giving the press a mum "wait and see" approach regarding even the River Line and ACL, which already service the Del Vall region. The first mentions of these two lines led some to believe those lines would be reduced or perhaps closed, because the statements were poorly written and did not offer any substance about any proposed increased frequency and cost of tickets for these modified services. I don't know what they're waiting for.

I suppose the contract negotiations and the fare increase has taken so much of NJT management's attention. They are really running out of time to fund and plan a supposed clocker service, in addition to the presale of their special ACL and River Line tickets.