WRECK OF THE REMOTES, STRIKES AGAIN

There is another factor which enters into this - the mental end. When you are working the ground you are constantly planning moves, watching for hazards, calculating how far to the hitch, and a dozen other things. When you are running an engine you are constantly evaluating your speed, need more brake? need more throttle? watching for hazards, did some other job take the switches away from us, anticipating what you need to do next. Both jobs require full mental attention.

Now when you put both tasks on the same person at the same time you geometrically multiply the chances of something going wrong. Add in the possible malfunctions of the box as Steel Wheels describes and you are really putting mental overload into play - too much information. (Remember some guys can't chew gum and walk at the same time).

On a nice quiet industrial spur moving a few cars they would be OK in my opinion. But in a congested yard with a lot of work and other jobs - no thanks.

Oh.

Thanks for the education and insight.

GOLDEN-ARM wrote: It seems they are waiting for "something" to happen, so they can rule out this type of operation, an outrageous concept, for a normally "pro-carrier" branch of Government. The job begins in the SP/UP yard, in Albany (OE Yard), and terminates down at Eugene, after switching his way, down the entire length of the line. The carrier even offered him a trainman, to work with him, but with a pay-cut, for the help. Guess which way this "brother" voted? (gotta be the most anti-union, union guy, I have seen, in a long time. kept another guy, from having a job!!!)

All railroaders are greedy, regardless of craft. You should not be surprised.

Just curious but how far does this one man car peddler run? How many consignees?

Slightly off topic, but wondering - I know large facilities like mines or steel mills have had remote control switching for decades (The images I've seen are of small switchers like Alcos S2 or EMD SW7s, cab windows plated over, and a set of coloured lights on each side (which I've read indicate the locomotive's current operational state) - what technology was used for these units (which, as I said, have been around for decades)?
I guess I'm wondering what technology of the 1970s worked, while apparently technology of the 21st century doesn't work very well (note, I am not talking about operational constraints, as obviously the mill switcher is in an isolated environment, while the yard switcher can be in a wide open environment - I mean did the old school mill switcher cut out, die, lose signal etc much more often than Beltpak and it's ilk?)

Ray..I'm going to hazard a guess that the remote systems used in those types of industries are "closed", meaning the signal goes directly from box to motor, not bouncing off satellites and split to three different places like the remotes we're talking about. I'd also bet that the controls are a lot simpler. The fewer the functions and the more direct the signal, the fewer problems you'll have.

We take unit trains to a big grain transload facility just south of Longview, WA that has this ancient remote-powered goat, the antenna on the thing is at least 6 feet tall. The guy running the box does it most of the time in his truck, which is a big no-no for us. He gave me a ride once and showed me his belt pack, it's about twice the size of the ones we have and looks like it was built in someone's basement.

(Back in early 90's) The soda ash mine, FMC out here has one on a SW1200. Dont remember what system it uses, the remote control was about the size of those big Army walky talkies. The plant let me play around with it (back when i was a contract switcher), pretty hard to hold on to and manipulate the motor. The safe guard was a big button on the top that you would have to hold down while the motor was in motion, all the commands were toggle switches. Steels right, with a mine goat, at a plant theres no big expensive relays, line of sight only, and think that one had a range of about 1/4 mile. If i remember right too, couldnt make that one coast, stopped at idle or moving under power, no finesse, no speed sensors. Think besides pulling a whole string of empties up to the load out, the most they handled was about 6 or 7 cars at a time.

That travelling switcher covers a run of about 50 miles, with industries perhaps every five miles, when averaged.
Bobby, if you don't like big bad railroaders throwing away the garbage bestowed upon them by the carriers, that's too bad. That man did what he felt what was needed, at that particular time. Maybe the process should become so convoluted, so time consuming, and so difficult, that it's not worth the time to even check out the equipment, in the first place.
Those industrial jobs, running that ancient type of radio control (Harris?) are well suited, to the little area they cover, not connected with the general system, outside of a derail and a connecting switch.
Bobby, AGAIN, you are whining about the lack of a video. It's not gonna happen, so you won't be able to watch the action, from the cab, via some pirated streaming videos. You gotta give it up already, man.
Yo, Big "C". I would say it's unfair, to catagorize ALL railroaders, as automatically greedy. I have voted AGAINST every single vote, we have been presented with, when the outcome was a loss of jobs, or seniority. I am all in favor of more money (and who isn't ), But if I vote to get rid of you, why would I imagine I might not be next? As weak as they are today, and for all of their posturing, and posing, I still stand 100% behind my union, and will always vote PRO union (meaning more money, and/or no loss of jobs, seniority), because the alternative, is Omni-Trax, Watco or Pioneer Rail Corp. If you don't mind poverty wages, then I say Go Anti-Union!!!
Bobby, you would prefer to work alone, for extra pay? Good luck, with that. You might get a job, testing railroad simulation games, in your moms basement.............. Then, you would have those "videos" you so desperately, desperately seem to be searching for.........

GOLDEN-ARM wrote: Yo, Big "C". I would say it's unfair, to catagorize ALL railroaders, as automatically greedy. I have voted AGAINST every single vote, we have been presented with, when the outcome was a loss of jobs, or seniority. I am all in favor of more money (and who isn't ), But if I vote to get rid of you, why would I imagine I might not be next? As weak as they are today, and for all of their posturing, and posing, I still stand 100% behind my union, and will always vote PRO union (meaning more money, and/or no loss of jobs, seniority), because the alternative, is Omni-Trax, Watco or Pioneer Rail Corp. If you don't mind poverty wages, then I say Go Anti-Union!!!

Yo, "Golden" Appendage. Simmer down NOW!!

In the name of splitting hairs, not all railroaders are greedy. Just the ones that work(ed) for the following carriers:

• NJ Transit
  Conrail
  Erie
  Lackawanna
  Erie-Lackawanna
  Jersey Central
  Lehigh Valley
  Reading
  Lehigh & Hudson River
  Lehigh & New England
  Chessie System
  Pittsburgh & Lake Erie
  Delaware & Hudson
  Pennsylvania RR
  Penn Central
  New York Central
  Southern Ry.
  Louisville & Nashville
  Missouri Pacific
  Illinois Central Gulf
  Santa Fe
  Amtrak

I've worked with guys off of all these roads and they've all got one thing in common; a love affair with $$$

I think there's a couple other carriers in the US not on this list. Perhaps they're not greedy.

Throwing away expensivequipment is not doing what is needed.
Accomplishes nothing but making his company lose some more money.


I don't have a hard-on for video.
Just don't see how a remote can be safe if you can't see rearward
to view what or who you are about to hit.

Maybe a proximity alarm would work.
Buto beffective, it may have to be too sensitive and therefore announce too many false alarms.
Visual confirmation would be needed, so we're back to video.

I don't back any fire apparatus without a spotter.
I may miss seeing something/someone or a vehicle pulling up behind
which is not visible in any mirrors.

thebigc wrote:

GOLDEN-ARM wrote:

Yo, "Golden" Appendage. Simmer down NOW!!

In the name of splitting hairs, not all railroaders are greedy. Just the ones that work(ed) for the following carriers:

• NJ Transit
  Conrail
  Erie
  Lackawanna
  Erie-Lackawanna
  Jersey Central
  Lehigh Valley
  Reading
  Lehigh & Hudson River
  Lehigh & New England
  Chessie System
  Pittsburgh & Lake Erie
  Delaware & Hudson
  Pennsylvania RR
  Penn Central
  New York Central
  Southern Ry.
  Louisville & Nashville
  Missouri Pacific
  Illinois Central Gulf
  Santa Fe
  Amtrak

I've worked with guys off of all these roads and they've all got one thing in common; a love affair with $$$

I think there's a couple other carriers in the US not on this list. Perhaps they're not greedy.

I will agree, that we are ALL in this for the money. If not, we could have some cushy job in an air conditioned office, with a secretary, regular hours, days off, etc. To say just because we are greedy (your words) doesn't mean we are selfish, backstabbing or cut-throat. You can be the biggest "whore" on the railroad, taking every cent that comes your way. You can also do that, without "puttin' the boots" to your brothers, in the process. I take great outrage, at the listing of the LV, in your list. Those Valley guys, ran a railroad with no money, a physical plant that was failing, and a sense of pride, and accomplishment, not seen in ANY other roads, in the area. The hard work, sacrifice and efforts, of the operating employees, actually took the Valley out of the RED ink, and into the black, in the final 18 months of the railorad. The die was already cast, though, and ConRail could not be held off. This was the ONLY carrier, to be absorbed into the merger, to do that. They lost the most, in the merger (LH&R was doomed, from the date of the fire, at Poughkeepsie) The other roads, ran mostly intact, with little loss of seniority. This one guy, I referenced, is obviously NOT a union man, he was forced to come along, for the ride.

Bobby said: "Just don't see how a remote can be safe if you can't see rearward to view what or who you are about to hit. "

You finally got it rght, Bob-O!!! It CAN'T be safe, unless someone is PHYSICALLY watching the shove, from the shove. If you gotta be back there, watching the engine, you might as well be running it......

OOPs, double post!

One more bit here. For a post, that started as a comment about a remote incident, this thing has gotten some very interesting stuff going here. THANKS TO ALL, who have contributed to it!!!!!!

Yah.
You sure started something. 5 pages!

GOLDEN-ARM wrote: I take great outrage, at the listing of the LV, in your list. Those Valley guys, ran a railroad with no money, a physical plant that was failing, and a sense of pride, and accomplishment, not seen in ANY other roads, in the area. The hard work, sacrifice and efforts, of the operating employees, actually took the Valley out of the RED ink, and into the black, in the final 18 months of the railorad. The die was already cast, though, and ConRail could not be held off. This was the ONLY carrier, to be absorbed into the merger, to do that. They lost the most, in the merger (LH&R was doomed, from the date of the fire, at Poughkeepsie) The other roads, ran mostly intact, with little loss of seniority.

Two things:

1. You might be overlooking the influx of USRA money that went into the component roads from 1974 when the 4-R act was signed by President Ford to C-day. I believe the Reading broke even in 1975 as well.

2. Do you include the EL in your statement about the other roads coming out mostly intact? You're not serious, right? Tell that to the people at Marion, OH. and all the employees from Youngstown, OH and West!

Naw, that "influx" of money, is not calculated, in the operating/profit ratio. The Valley was the only one, to come into black ink, before the end. rationalization of plant, flexible agreements, with the unions, and bridge traffic, between the New England region, via the D&H, to the B&O/C&O to the south, made up the difference. CTC of the entire mainline, singletracking the majority of the mainline, eliminating towers, via consolidation, closing yards, and relocating shop forces to one central location, was mostly responsible. Overall miles, of the Valley, pre/post ConRail, and overall miles, for the EL, pre/post ConRail, show the loss of the average percentage of these railroads. The LV was cut back, to less than half the original mileage, and through the CR years, even more was lost. The only place to fare any worse, was the L&HR, but as mentioned, the die for that collapse, was cast in the bridge fire, ending the life of a truly "bridge-line" carrier. It's intersting to think of the "what-ifs", and one or two variations, on the final merger, were given serious consideration. What if the LV/DH/EL proposal had come to fruition? Several EL proposals, were considered, and EL was thought to have been able to stand alone, until the Hurricanes doomed portions of that road, in '75 (I believe that was the year) It is agreed, though, that ALL of the northeast roads, were losers, in the merger, as far as retention of lines, yards, terminals and jobs/seniority goes.