• WNY&P WANTS 6-8 six axle Alcos

  • Discussion pertaining to the past and present operations of the LAL, the WNYP, and the B&H. Official site: LALRR.COM.
Discussion pertaining to the past and present operations of the LAL, the WNYP, and the B&H. Official site: LALRR.COM.

Moderator: Luther Brefo

  by pablo
This is one of those things that I'd love to know how it started, etc.

Looking at this logically, what exactly is the pool of 6 axle ALCOs left? Anyone can figure out that it's quite small, at best. So, I sincerely doubt that the WNYP, LAL, etc., would send out a notice or otherwise spread it around that they were looking for 6 axle power. Simple economics dictate it to be so.

If it was a "plant," in other words, if someone at the aforementioned railroads really did have this interest, they would have gone about it in a much quieter, more sincere fashion than this.

My two cents are that someone somewhere thinks he knows something that he really doesn't, and decided to throw some things together and publish them.

This could also be a creative way to spread a rumor without actually calling it a rumor: declare that the WNYP is looking for 6 axle power! It has to be true!

I know I have said this before if anyone cared: if I ran a forum and rumors were spread, I'd ban them from the forum. The internet precludes such measures in most cases. A published document should be held accountable to a higher standard, and that's certainly not the case here.

Again, I question the motives involved.

Dave Becker

  by Luther Brefo
Who wrote this "article"?

Nothing is certain at the moment and just because it is in print does not make it truth.

The truth is sure to come in time.
  by Sandy Burton
Thanks, John. I have not gotten a May issue of Railpace yet. I will have to check this out. I am a bit skeptical about that report since no one on this forum seems to have heard about it and many of us have good connections with various Alco railroads here in the northeast.


  by nessman
Railpace is notorious for publishing rumors and other unsubstantiated facts.

Given the lack of serviceable 6-axle Alco power out there, if this rumor is indeed true it's gonna be either GE or EMD power that best meets the business needs of the railroad.

Such a decision will be largely dependent upon traffic count.

  by RS-3
Les, *if* the rumor is true (which, like you I have some doubts), then it would have to be 6 axle Alcos. Otherwise the rumor wouldn't be "true".

And I'm sure the management at the LA&L/WNY&P thanks you for telling them what best meets their business needs. (Anyway, I'm sure the LA&L/WNY&P would never buy non-serviceable units.)

But based on current Buffalo Line traffic levels north of Driftwood (as I understand them) I'm at a loss as to why the railroad would need more than a couple of 6-axle Alcos, at this point. (Maybe later, down the road long term I could see them being interested in a few more big Alcos.)


  by nessman
Maybe the rumor is for 6-8 six-axle Alcos, but perhaps the fact is they're looking for 6-8 six-axle locomotives (GE or EMD)? The closest thing to an Alco out there is a a U-boat or Dash-7 series as you have some common electrical parts.

  by Otto Vondrak
With all the power in Lakeville that's currently in storage awaiting restoration to service, why would they be looking for more?

  by pablo
Les: I'm sure that they do not want GE's.

Otto: I have no inside knowledge of any new traffic, or anything like that, so I really am guessing. However, to specifically ask for 6 axles (again, this is assuming that any of this rumor has any merit) implies that something else is up.

Further, my understanding is that there's much work to be done on the power in Lakeville. I would think that any railroad would like things that are a bit more operable than that.

Kevin and crew will certainly be able to get those units in storage working. It just takes time.

Dave Becker

  by nessman
I'm purely speculating as to the GE vs EMD thing.

I'm sure the rumor for 6-axle power came about because of the grades on the Buffalo Line... that LAL is an Alco shop - that naturally they'd look for Alco power... blah blah blah...

The LAL is pretty good about keeping us railfans in the know... when/if they're ready to announce something, they'll say something.

  by pablo
Les, perfectly said.

Dave Becker

  by RS-3
Speaking of speculation ... I suspect they would want to pick up 6-8 more *units*. 6-axle might be preferred, but I suspect they will settle for 4-axle. From what I understand and speculate (mostly speculate) they will add the 73 to the WNY&P, send down the C-430 from Lakeville that was there (432) and eventually the 2ed ex-NYSW C-430 (is it the 430 or 433?). That's three 3,000hp units plus 3 or 4 4-axle units that are reportedly coming from the M&E (think 4223, 4228 and 4264).

Those 6 units should be enough to hold them for a while. Eventually the last C430 will arrive and then the 3 ex-GB&W units (over time, and they will need some time). In the meantime they can shop for more Alcos. Even 6-axles. Maybe NYSW will be tired if theirs by then. Cartier has more too. If need be they can lease one or two as well. (Remember the M420 they leased from the OC&T?) Ohio Central has two Centurys for sale, and there are others out there. If they want Alcos, they are available.


  by Tadman
It's my educated guess that four axle Alcos will work out fine for LA&L on their new route, and here's the three facts I base it on:
1. we don't really know if management is looking for a six-axle
2. the Monon ditched their C628's in favor of C420's, and the southern end of the route was exceptionally hilly
3. I can't count on my right hand the roads that have six axle Alcos sittin around - the big fleets, BC, CNW, CP, CN, NdeM - are gone now.

  by RS-3
Ha! I like that, what we don't know is a "fact"! Yes, yes I suppose it is!

I wouldn't put much into the comparing the Monon of the 60's to the Buffalo Line of the 2000's. A lot has changed in 40 years. The C-628s were too big, too hard of the track, and not very versatile. Not a problem on today’s BL. I suspect we’ll see WNY&P’s two six axles working the BL on a regular basis. And if they acquire more I’d bet that’s where they go.

It will be interesting to see if they do find more Big Alcos. Be they NYSW, Cartier or one or two here or there. Only time will tell. But for now it'll be mostly a 4-axle railroad.


  by sallenparks
If there's not enough shippers on the Buffalo line could the WNY&P be takening the coal trains or at least the pusher duty from NS.

  by RS-3
From another website (credit and my apolgies to ROC):

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1177592052

"We attended a dinner at a restaurant in Cuba where Mssr Burt gave a speech. He mentioned the WNYP needed to purchase a half dozen or so six-axle Alco's to haul sand out of central Pa to central NY for making glass along with the current wax business in Farmers valley, as well as misc freight from Driftwood to Olean. He also said there would be assorted freight from the interchange at the Meadville yard and Hornell yards to Olean."

"Burt indicated that Olean is going be WNYP's base of operations after the turnover around the end of May or early June."