Will They Ever Return?

RandallW wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 3:45 am The KISS and Flirt MUs are FRA compliant in mixed traffic (and assembled in Salt Lake City). It seems NJT prefers to use foreign locomotives as the ALP-45As, ALP-45DPs, APL-46s and APL-46As are all imported from Germany.

Also, KISS MUs come with optional wraps for Space man, Cat man, Demon, and Star child.

OK. Mr. Scratchy, you get whatever award is the equivalent of Oscar, Emmy, whatever for a stand up commedian

But you have raised an interesting point, which resulted in my locating this, apparently railfan-with-access produced, video:

https://youtu.be/6n-N_SWKF6Q

It would appear evident that this DMU equipment is FRA compliant, and meets any applicable "buy American" requirements.

Finally and again, I cannot fault METRA 's Board for procuring the 200 bi-level cars. They awarded the contract based upon conditions during '19. Nobody foresaw COVID; and nobody foresaw the permanent economic conditions that WFH has left behind even as the pandemic has largely ended.

RandallW wrote: ↑Thu May 25, 2023 3:45 am The KISS and Flirt MUs are FRA compliant in mixed traffic (and assembled in Salt Lake City). It seems NJT prefers to use foreign locomotives as the ALP-45As, ALP-45DPs, APL-46s and APL-46As are all imported from Germany.

According to Wikipedia, FLIRT operators in the US are TexRAIL, Arrow, and DART, none of which are FRA-compliant lines and all of which use time separation with freight the same way the NJT River Line does.

The only KISS DMUs that exist in the world are operating in Azerbaijan. The Caltrain KISS EMUs (not DMUs) are FRA-compliant on an alternative approval track that, for example, requires PTC installed on all trains that are not time-separated, which is not something achievable for passenger roads that share tracks with long-distance freight. Only 4 train sets have arrived on the property at this time.

NJT prefers to use locomotives for operations that require it. An MU is not going to be the optimal choice for all agencies and service patterns. If they aren't dependent on federal funding to procure their equipment, why limit themselves to rolling stock that's manufactured in the US?

PTC is required for *all* routes that carry regular commuter traffic, including NJT routes (meaning there is no regulatory advantage to NJT of not needing PTC equipment). Can you point to anything suggesting the waivers on the KISS equipment would prevent their use in the NEC?

I can't since the waivers for the Caltrain KISS units in the Federal Register are to label the emergency brake levers as "Emergency Brake" instead of "Emergency Brake Valve", to allow magnetic emergency brakes to be within 2.5 inches of the top of rail, and to not carry uncoupling safety gear needed for knuckle couples, but not for Scharfenberg couplers, to avoid the handrails and platforms needed for crew to ride outside the cars, and allow safety interlocks to prevent passengers from opening doors at speed. The waivers for the Arrow flirt units are for the emergency brake valve designs, end platforms on passenger cars (both also in the KISS waivers), and to relax interior inspection schedule requirements.

This implies that the time separation of FLIRT units in CA is to either to waive the use PTC or avoid train movement conflicts that would delay passenger trains, not for safety related to crash protections.

(These waivers also imply it is considered a safety feature that a passenger can open a door on a train operating at 110 MPH.)

OK; so apparently this Stadtler equipment cannot operate on a Class I without the "clearances" light rail equipment gets to operate over the River Line in NJ?

My earlier thought that Stadtler "FLIRT" equipment operated on the UTA lines, which uses the DRGW Salt Lake-Provo and UP Ogden-Brigham City, was mistaken..

There are no alternative crashworthiness standards that prevent the Stadler FLIRTs or KISSes from being used in mixed traffic on Class I railroads.

So, Mr. Randall W, your statement means that nothing has come to your attention to establish that this Stadler equipment would be barred from operating on METRA lines, be they CNW (UP), CBQ(BNSF), MILW(NICRC), SOO(CN), IC(CN), CRI&P(NICRC), or WAB(NS).

Gilbert B Norman wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:39 pm So, Mr. Randall W, your statement means that nothing has come to your attention to establish that this Stadler equipment would be barred from operating on METRA lines, be they CNW (UP), CBQ(BNSF), MILW(NICRC), SOO(CN), IC(CN), CRI&P(NICRC), or WAB(NS).

That is correct as far as the FRA is concerned.

As we saw with the Amtrak SDP40Fs being barred from multiple railroads, BNSF's insistence that the Talgos cant less than designed for, and with UP's insistence that the Missouri River Runners have 30 axles minimum it is possible for host railroads to put additional restrictions in place.

Of info, the Q ran engine, two car trains or
fourteen (E-8's A-1-A) axles. so it might be a stretch to operate a three car 12 axle DMU set.

Unfortunately for METRA, that 200 car order cannot be "unwound" in favor if equipment more suited for the loss of ridership.