• Will They Ever Return?

  • This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.
This forum will be for issues that don't belong specifically to one NYC area transit agency, but several. For instance, intra-MTA proposals or MTA-wide issues, which may involve both Metro-North Railroad (MNRR) and the Long Island Railroad (LIRR). Other intra-agency examples: through running such as the now discontinued MNRR-NJT Meadowlands special. Topics which only concern one operating agency should remain in their respective forums.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, nomis, FL9AC, Jeff Smith

  by daybeers
 
Yeah honestly it's silly to shop for a whole week instead of a quick trip for one or two days. Makes more sense when zoning allows for destinations to be much closer to home.
  by scratchyX1
 
You mean how most people in European and Latin countries shop?
  by STrRedWolf
 
I think this thread has played out.

In short:
  • Passengers will return to the trains, but slowly. It won't get fully back to pre-pandemic until 2025.
  • It won't be the same passengers, due to the pandemic forcing work-from-home. Some companies are finding benefits in that. Others are stubborn, or need staff to be in "office".
  • Transit schedules will reflect the load for a while.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
As the originator of this topic, I wholly concur with Mr. Wolf's immediate thought.

With reported COVID cases at half that from a year earlier, and with nothing to suggest that anything like the post 2021THANX Omicron "spike" is about to occur, we as society must accept that COVID "is something we live with" just as we do seasonal influenza.

There are readily available safe and effective VAXs for each. While there are segments of the population, largely owing to religious convictions, that choose not to participate, but for the rest of us, life will go on although however changed.

The change largely is how we work if we are classified as a knowledge worker, as distinct from front line. Society as a whole, needs to accept that these changes are permanent and so for what we gather here to discuss - passenger railroad transportation and the adverse effect upon such, we have drawn the conclusion that "it's never coming back".

All parties in interest had best accept such.
  by Ken W2KB
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 9:24 am That, and they'd probably have a small handcart that can hold 4-6 bags of groceries. Probably with a thermal bag for the frozen and chilled foods.
That is my recollection of how my mother and many other residents of Bayonne, NJ transported their typically weekly grocery purchases, walking anywhere up to 1-1/2 miles to and from home to the stores. Here is an online photo of a grocery cart similar to one that folks used: https://secure.img1-cg.wfcdn.com/im/173 ... y+Cart.jpg
  by lensovet
 
hell, that's how my parents and I grocery shopped in Brooklyn 20 years ago. Met foods was about 0.8 miles away and Edwards (now Stop-n-Shop) was 1.2 miles.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Getting "a bit" off-topic around here with all these grocery shopping anecdotes.

I don't think if one "wheels" a cart of groceries correlates with any particular affluence level - personal or geographic. I see people wheeling groceries about here in my community. I have such a cart myself, and should the day come I can no longer safely drive before that when I can no longer walk, I'll do such myself. Maybe then, when "the Hawk comes a callin'", I will finally learn what an Uber is.

Finally, should one so choose, there are plenty of readily available demographics regarding my community (an incorporated village). While not the "top" in the "land of the Burlingtons", it's "up there".
  by eolesen
 
People shop to the size of their storage and proximity to a store... refrigerators in Europe and Latin America are considerably smaller than what the average American or Canadian has. An apartment or condo in the city typically won't have room for two fridges and a deep freeze, or a pantry. A house in the suburbs easily does.

We tend to shop two weeks at a time because we have both the cold storage and shelf space for that, and it's less time spent shopping. Grabbing two dozen eggs and two gallons of milk takes the same amount of time and effort as grabbing one...
  by STrRedWolf
 
Getting back on track here, there's a good argument to be made about not returning, per per Louis Rossmann in a "Real estate apocalypse" video.

Boiled down:
  • Store rents were getting jacked up too much, pre-pandemic... and so much now, that no company wants to go back.
  • NYC regulations are so complicated that even the city doesn't know what they are... which means you need a team of lawyers just to navigate them.
  • Moving out of NYC means saving real money, hundreds of thousands of dollars if not millions. (Rossmann himself moved his business to Texas)
Extend that out to the current topic: Companies going WFH and reducing their NYC footprint, which drops demand on transit... and you get what I'm leading to.

Looks like it's going to take a retail real-estate bubble burst plus government reform in NYC to get folks back.
  by eolesen
 
Thanks for forwarding that link. Quite entertaining although probably a little bit foul mouth for some people's sensitivities, he didn't hold anything back.

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  by STrRedWolf
 
eolesen wrote: Mon Dec 12, 2022 9:36 am Thanks for forwarding that link. Quite entertaining although probably a little bit foul mouth for some people's sensitivities, he didn't hold anything back.
Yeah, Rossmann's been burned by NYC's regulations and even fought off a tax audit (he overpaid). So there's more reasons for him to GTFO of NYC.
  by lensovet
 
lol this guy…no comment.

wonder how much $$$ he makes off the clicks he generates on YT. definitely don't need an office in NYC for that…yet somehow I don't see him moving.
  by eolesen
 
He's already moved to Texas. His repair business moves next month.
  by lensovet
 
As they say, don't let the door hit you on the way out. Hope he enjoys his floods, ice storms, and power outages :)

NYC managed to add over 600k people in the last decade, so I suspect something must be attracting people here.
  • 1
  • 16
  • 17
  • 18
  • 19
  • 20