Why was the Belt Line local going backwards?

I was next to the CSX Belt Line tracks in Rochester, NY near the Emerson Street crossing when a train came by running backwards. It was heading south with an old Conrail transfer caboose in the lead. The cars were of a mixed freight variety. Taking up the "rear" were two CSX GP locomotives. The train did not come back in the 20 minutes I was there, so I take it the train went somewhere (maybe back to Goodman?).

Is this a new procedure for the Belt Line? Are the Kodak run-around tracks not in service?

What you saw is a regular occurrence. The train goes to “Kodak” and sometimes the box shop, then pushes south back to the mainline at CP373. Once it gets east of CP373 it then heads west toward CP382. Some days it will then head east on the west shore to Genesee Jct. other days it will continue to Batavia.

Trains don’t go “backwards”, that was called a “Shove Move”. You would say “I saw a train shoving towards..”

They used to go all the way up to Charlotte to run power around the consist - but the runner is out of service just north of the box shop. Probably faster / easier just to shove it back down to the Buffalo Wye and into the yard given how little traffic is up there these days. Once upon a time they did a run around at the siding at Kodak and the conductor bottled up air in the consist causing a pretty nasty derailment in Charlotte back in the early 2000's. My guess is that's probably why they no longer run around at Kodak.

Won't be surprised to see the Charlotte Runner abandoned beyond the box shop there at some point soon with Russell Station now a distant memory and no traffic north of that point.

The Great Charlotte Bonfire was Christmas Eve, 2002. But as the CSX spokesman said - "There is no fire!"

There actually used to be two options for running around the train at Kodak - the siding to the west of the main and the "Old Way" to the east. In the mid 1960's it was not unusual for the southbound Second Belt to put cars on both the siding and main, run through the Old Way, then double both cuts together and head for Goodman Street with 40 or more cars.

TrainDetainer wrote: ↑Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:11 am The Great Charlotte Bonfire was Christmas Eve, 2002. But as the CSX spokesman said - "There is no fire!"

2001 actually. Pictures I took the day of and after...

http://www.rochester-railfan.net/images/Derailment/
http://www.rochester-railfan.net/images/Derailment_2/

I was living at Spanish Gardens at the time, heard the roar, saw the plume of black smoke, and listened to what seemed to be every siren possible in a 10 mile radius. I grabbed a coat and walked over, not realizing it was RR related, so no camera (nuts). I started at the Lake Ave. overpass. Both geeps were on their sides, having separated from the train and rolled over on the curve. They were not running, but still lit up. Firemen were scrambling around trying to "turn things off" I presume, and checking for ruptured fuel tanks/lines/spillages, etc. (I don't think they found anything). The bigger show was around the corner, so I joined an already-growing crowd on the former Hojack ROW near the swing bridge pier on the west side. One of the ladies was quite upset because someone she knew lived in one of the destroyed properties and no one could tell her anything. (To my knowledge, no one was home in any of the properties at the time and no one was hurt in the accident.) We stayed until we were shooed away by the local gendarmes. At that point, the RR/firemen/police had been informed of the potentially toxic fumes from the burning tank cars and were charged with establishing a radius. I left and went across the Stutson St. bridge to the east side and settled in among the crowd where the majority of nessman's photos were taken.

I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but if both geeps were equipped with dynamic brakes, why weren't they used?

CPSmith wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:52 pm
I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but if both geeps were equipped with dynamic brakes, why weren't they used?

I don't know the specific answer to your question for this incident. However one possibility is they were inoperative, another possibility is they were inadequate to the task of holding back 40 odd cars.

Further, if I recall correctly, at least with older power when the train goes into emergency the dynamic braking is nullified. If that's accurate in this case, and if the engineer first tried dumping the air unaware the angle cock was shut, he might have been unable to use them even if other factors were favorable.

Yes, in most cases (there are exceptions), an emergency application will nullify dynamic brakes. However, there's nothing to prevent the engineer from resetting the air brakes after an emergency application and then using the dynamics.

So there's more to the story.

CPSmith wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:29 pm Yes, in most cases (there are exceptions), an emergency application will nullify dynamic brakes. However, there's nothing to prevent the engineer from resetting the air brakes after an emergency application and then using the dynamics.

So there's more to the story.

It's my understanding that both of the crew were relatively new to railroading with only a few years experience. Hindsight is always 20/20, but there WERE a few things that could have altered the outcome. Also, today's rules, training and operating practices are different from what was done for decades before. I wasn't there so I can't say what was going through anybody's head at the time.

Air in the train was bottled up (brakes released - angle cocks on either end shut). All that was left was the independent brakes and dynamics on the engines which proved to be useless. The engineer ended up bailing out of the cab before the train really got moving - and the conductor was already on the ground. It's a 1% grade all the way to Charlotte. Gravity and a sharp curve before the swing bridge did the rest. That there were no injuries or deaths is a miracle.

The engineer from that train is/was on here somewhere and he's talked about it (actually he hasn't posted anything since 2014). I guess they both kept their jobs too. There's also an FRA and/or NTSB report on the accident you can find on their websites.

nessman wrote: ↑Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:04 pmThere's also an FRA and/or NTSB report on the accident you can find on their websites.

I could not locate it. Any links would be helpful. Thanks.