• Why electrify GO's Lakeshore Line?

  • Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in Canada. For specific railroad questions, see Fallen Flags and Active Railroads categories.
Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in Canada. For specific railroad questions, see Fallen Flags and Active Railroads categories.

Moderator: Ken V

  by george matthews
lock4244 wrote:First off, the whole thing is an election ploy... love being bribed with my own money.

Second, the electrification is in there purely for the "Green" aspect of it. No operational advantages that would even come close to justifying the MASSIVE costs associated with putting up and maintaining the wires. How gives a flying rats butt that the engines would last longer and can accelerate faster, the added maintenence of overhead wiring would be huge. Plus, one downed tree or ice storm and there is no GO Train service.

I guess another issue is that the locomotives would most certainly be built by BBD. Pork festival.

To me, it's a pretty stupid idea, purely for the benefit of the Government in their bid to get re-elected.
You may think "green" is just cosmetic, but using less oil is necessary especially if the electricity comes from hydro.

An electric passenger line should use EMUs rather than locos. Throughout the world that is the pattern for commuter lines, which this will be.
  by Friskens
You can't really beat electrification when it comes to economy in a high density railroad enviroment.

Regenerative brakeing is one big advantage that's hard to find otherwise and reduces energy usage by on average 17%. This should ofcourse be a part of any EMU system delivered today. Also the 50 year repayment time is also choosen probably becuase of the longevity of the electrification sheme some swedish mainline electrification is now on its 75th year aniversery and is now beeing gradually replaced for another 75 year run, this time with Galvanized steel poles, the older steel / rivited ones lasted 75 years or even longer if not along the coastline, that will probably outlast the old ones with a good bit.

Someone also wanted to make it sound like the overhead costs alot to maintain. In some places in sweden the original wire is still up without any interventions, wear on it is non-existant, the wear takes place on the locomotives/EMU:s.

Snow is a non-issue aswell and trees that is a problem when they fall on the "regular RR" line aswell isn't it ? Snowfall on year-around Ore-hauling operations in northen sweden where the temperature drops below 40 degrees centigrade in the winter months doesn't disrupt electric trian-service.

Also over-sized equipment like Double stacks and Autoracks can ofc be accomodated for, in China there's already double-stacks running under wires and work is ongoing to upgrade lines to the 20 ft / 6100mm required to clear doublestack wellcars.

Another note is on the Milwaukee Road, irony has it they are gone partly because they de-electrified right before the oilcrisis in the early 1970:s, the cost of diesel cut hard into its wallet, stupid directors and short term thinking didn't help either ofc! 3 independent studies said thier electrification was financially sound and they removed it ! *sigh* *doh*!

Greetings Hans from Sweden


  by Kaback9
MORRO UA wrote:what locomotiv will be use GO ?
Just a guess but Here in New Jersey, NJ Transit is ordering Dual modes as is AMT in Montreal, I could see GO ordering those so they can use them on all lines.
  by AgentSkelly
I suggest people read up on the whole story on the changeover from electric to diesel on the MILW before jumping to conclusions it was a failure.

And as for winters, may I remind people the entire TRANS-SIBERIAN RAILWAY is electrified?

Electrify the Lakeshore would be the easiest thing to build, and would speed up operation of GO and would pave the way to electrify the entire corridor!
  by buddah
I read this story in the toronto sun a while back and had some questions of my own. there are some goods and bad's to this. One Where would the money come from? I don't want to hear about 50 year repayment plans because we all know the Canadian government is stingy when it comes to funding large projects. They have been cutting VIA rails budget for decades now! ( the oil crisis last year is the only thing that got VIA and transit agencies there needed acceptance and funding) you really think they will take this much of a financial endeavor in today's economy ( Canada has just announced they too are in a recession). Also one other poster said they should get EMUs? That will never happen Canada would not put up that kind of cash for just 1 line. Kaback9 has the best idea dual mode locos. that can accommodate GO's current bombardier cars. GO is still taking delivery of Bomb's Bi levels, I dough they would want to start orders for new cars.

Electrification, (to Friskin) has any one looked at the cost to electrify a line now a days? your talking about the cost of electrification from 75 yrs ago, NO comparison to the cost in today's market. Once the government gets that estimate its GONE, especially since gas has come back down to a reasonable cost. This is something that should have been purposed and done back in the 80s/90s while Amtrak was updating the NEC (80s) and preparing the NEC for Acela(90s). the cost of installing centenary wire has more than doubled ( almost tripled) per mile installed since then. The lakeshore line form Hamilton to Oshawa is roughly 120km =75 miles. Cold weather has nothing to do with it, the NEC runs in the same harsh cold weather ( granted its mostly high speed), But Chicago Southshore line runs in the same harsh cold weather and that is the best example. Chicagoland & NW Indiana weather is almost identical to The GTA's weather, were in the same weather jetstream. As far as taxes if this goes into effect that 1 cent reduction to 13 cents you Canadians saw just last year will go up to 15 cents and will be for Ontario only.

I understand the earlier poster on the tree issue, one large tree fall on regular rails ,in 1 hr or less removal teams are out and service is back to normal, tree falls and takes out centenary, U will definitely need dual mode locos or your entire operation is shot for hours. I dough that would work out well for go transit riders. EMU's or full electric locos would require GO to have diesel locos to be on standby at all times for that scenario. What Dual mode loco would they use? currently in North America there are no dual modes that use diesel/centenary. everything is diesel/thirdrail. The AMT/NJT locos still have not been delivered by bombardier and thus can not be used as a possible example. Im not saying it can't be done, But at what cost and will Canada be willing to front that cost. Currently as of june 2008 bombardier contract with AMT/NJT is to build 20 locomotives at a cost of 236 million or 11.8 million a loco.

I am a supporter that we need a greener method of commuter rail transit in the GTA, I'd actually like to see all GO lines converted to centenary or third rail. But what can they do right now to help the environment. Maybe stop running these 10- 12 car trains all day and night and cut the train in half for midday, late night, and weekend runs, similar to Metra in Chicago. Order more cabs from bombardier instead of coaches so you can easily cut a consist in half when not needed. this would ease fuel usage and wear on the locomotives. Everyone knows what GO Transit does to there locomotives other rail agencies would call abuse! To ALL Don't worry the $5 a gallon / $1.50 a liter days will return. Then and only then will we see some change.
  by drewh
I'm always surprised that there was not more extensive electrification in Canada, especially with all the cheap Hydro power that is available. I would love to see the corridor electrified with 150+ mph running.

Have there ever been serious discussions about electrifying the cooridor? If so why has it never happened? Also were there any other passenger electric operations in Canada other than the Montréal Deux-Montagnes line?

Anymore news on the GO project?