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  • Who used rider cars?

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This forum is for discussion of "Fallen Flag" roads not otherwise provided with a specific forum. Fallen Flags are roads that no longer operate, went bankrupt, or were acquired or merged out of existence.

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 #1105660  by NKP1155
 
In 1936 the Nickel Plate Road started to convert old box cars into what they called "riders". These side door, no cupola cars were cut in behind the locomotive on local freights. The head brakeman, extra brakeman (Swingman on the NKP main, Listman on the Clover Leaf District) and conductor rode this car, leaving just the flagman on the caboose. These cars had a desk, stove and bench. They were used to haul company mail and packages, as well as Railway Express parcels. Since there were not enough riders to go around, some locals had a caboose assigned to this duty. My question is, "What other railroads used a vehicle like the rider car, where, and in what capacity?"
 #1108530  by Desertdweller
 
This sounds like services usually provided by a mixed train. A mixed train with out passengers, in this case.

Some railroads used cabooses equipped with side doors for this service. Rock Island comes to mind: I've actually been inside a couple of these (converted from small wooden boxcars).

I think generally the practice was to equip these cabooses with extra seats and operate them as a "caboose mixed". Passengers could then be accommodated without needing an actual passenger car.

When I worked on railroads in the caboose era, company mail and small amounts of company material (small parts for locomotives, for example) were generally carried on the caboose.

Les
 #1115459  by mmi16
 
B&O used cabooses on both ends of some locals - more for crew convience and efficiency than anything else.
 #1128807  by v8interceptor
 
NKP1155 wrote:In 1936 the Nickel Plate Road started to convert old box cars into what they called "riders". These side door, no cupola cars were cut in behind the locomotive on local freights. The head brakeman, extra brakeman (Swingman on the NKP main, Listman on the Clover Leaf District) and conductor rode this car, leaving just the flagman on the caboose. These cars had a desk, stove and bench. They were used to haul company mail and packages, as well as Railway Express parcels. Since there were not enough riders to go around, some locals had a caboose assigned to this duty. My question is, "What other railroads used a vehicle like the rider car, where, and in what capacity?"
As I recall (mainly from the writings of Tony Koester who did a lot of research on NKP operations) the rider cars were a direct result of Indiana having a specific law on crew size for trains operating within the state (esp. way freights) which meant they were required to have a larger crew than elsewhere. Why NKP went with the use of Rider cars while NYC,Monon etc. did not is an interesting question.
 #1167573  by Tadman
 
The South Shore was known for running freights with a caboose at each end during the electric freight era. This wasn't an "always" thing, it tended to be on operations using the 700-series ex-NYC motors and 800-series Little Joes. Especially the Gary job, a local that switched everything from the Miller Beach area to the Wabash main.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 98&nseq=14
 #1237103  by mmi16
 
v8interceptor wrote:
NKP1155 wrote:In 1936 the Nickel Plate Road started to convert old box cars into what they called "riders". These side door, no cupola cars were cut in behind the locomotive on local freights. The head brakeman, extra brakeman (Swingman on the NKP main, Listman on the Clover Leaf District) and conductor rode this car, leaving just the flagman on the caboose. These cars had a desk, stove and bench. They were used to haul company mail and packages, as well as Railway Express parcels. Since there were not enough riders to go around, some locals had a caboose assigned to this duty. My question is, "What other railroads used a vehicle like the rider car, where, and in what capacity?"
As I recall (mainly from the writings of Tony Koester who did a lot of research on NKP operations) the rider cars were a direct result of Indiana having a specific law on crew size for trains operating within the state (esp. way freights) which meant they were required to have a larger crew than elsewhere. Why NKP went with the use of Rider cars while NYC,Monon etc. did not is an interesting question.
Indiana had laws that required a 3rd Brakeman for trains of 70 cars and larger. Trains of 69 cars and smaller did not require the '3rd man'. I found it funny that trains operating between Washington, IN and East St. Louis would have their 3rd man dismount at the station at Vincennes, IN - a little over a mile from the Wabash River bridge that formed the border between Indiana and Illinois.
 #1371727  by BAR
 
The Monon used rider cars also know as a Head End Caboose on the CI&L. I saw them on the head end of trains passing through Bloomington in the 1960's. An internet search of "Monon Rider Cars" will produce photos and a roster of twelve Monon rider cars.
 #1389931  by John_Perkowski
 
mmi16 wrote:Indiana had laws that required a 3rd Brakeman for trains of 70 cars and larger. Trains of 69 cars and smaller did not require the '3rd man'. I found it funny that trains operating between Washington, IN and East St. Louis would have their 3rd man dismount at the station at Vincennes, IN - a little over a mile from the Wabash River bridge that formed the border between Indiana and Illinois.
Not in the least. Makes perfect business sense. Have him clear the clock and go off hours. That's a business decision, pure and simple
 #1389961  by ExCon90
 
... and not unique. The PRR line from Williamsport to Elmira and points north was subject to the New York State "full-crew" law; a "swing" brakeman had to be aboard a southbound freight for the first 3 miles from Elmira to the Pennsylvania state line at Fassett, where he would bail out and wait for the next northbound freight. (The word was that a fishing pole was kept in the wayside shack there.) The brakeman just rode the regular cabin car, however--no rider car provided.
 #1392217  by mmi16
 
John_Perkowski wrote:
mmi16 wrote:Indiana had laws that required a 3rd Brakeman for trains of 70 cars and larger. Trains of 69 cars and smaller did not require the '3rd man'. I found it funny that trains operating between Washington, IN and East St. Louis would have their 3rd man dismount at the station at Vincennes, IN - a little over a mile from the Wabash River bridge that formed the border between Indiana and Illinois.
Not in the least. Makes perfect business sense. Have him clear the clock and go off hours. That's a business decision, pure and simple
Has nothing to do with business decisions. The LAW applies to 178 of the 179 miles B&O traversed in the state of Indiana. If it was 'safe' to operate the final mile from Vincennes depot to the Illinois line without the 3rd man, logically it was also safe to operate from the Vincennes depot to the Ohio line. The Law - don't try to make logical sense of it.
 #1503301  by John_Perkowski
 
Union Pacific converted several of their heavyweight betterment (streamlined) cars to crew riders in the 60s.

SP used 60’ Common Standard coaches on such trains as the Coast Mail.
 #1546542  by Cosmo
 
Boston & Albany had a number of rider cars, some made from cabeese and some from old passenger cars.