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Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
 #253117  by eriwakaranai
 
Hello everyone.
I recently drove Pennsylvania turnpike(Route 76)to Pittsburgh. For me it is one of the most beautiful interstate highways in the united states, also it is the first one in history.
I also learned that it was originaly built as a railroad system between Burg and Philadelphia.
Do you konw which railroad company did that?

 #253126  by pennsy
 
Hi,

This was done in the days when the PRR and NYC were head to head to be the first and fastest from New York City to Chicago. They both tried to outdo each other. This stretch was PRR's doing.

 #253144  by LCJ
 
This stretch was PRR's doing.
Not really. Here's a good description of this line that never was:

South Pennsylvania Railroad
 #253266  by eriwakaranai
 
I thought Route 76 was built on railroad bed. I have to research more about this topic.

 #253273  by BaltOhio
 
The South Penn was surveyed from Harrisburg (where it was to connect with the Reading) to Port Perry, PA, where it was to connect with the P&LE into Pittsburgh. No work was ever done on either the eastern or western extremities of the line, since this was relatively easy country and since the construction strategy was to get the heavy work in the mountains under way first. Much grading was done in certain areas between Blue Mountain and Donegal, including partial work on nine tunnels, before all construction ceased.

The original part of the PA Turnpike, between the Carlisle and Irwin interchanges, used the South Penn route, including finishing seven of the nine tunnels. But the highway actually used very little of the railroad right-of-way, since it could be engineered for a 3% maximum grade while the railroad was designed for a 1% ruling grade over most of its length. Thus there are many spots where a hard-core RR archeologist can find remnants of the heavy railroad grading. For example, the 10-mile eastern ascent of Allegheny Mountain, between New Baltimore (which was to become the South Penn's Altoona) and Allegheny tunnel was completely graded over a route that runs to the south of the present turnpike. Another interesting area is the wide northerly arc the South Penn made around Somerset, which included a large, partially completed fill over the CSX (ex-B&O) Johnstown Branch as Geiger Station, 3 miles north of Somerset. The CSX line passes under the fill in a still-existing tunnel, built for it by the South Penn.

The Wikipedia entry follows the common story, but actually there is no evidence that the PRR had any stock interest in the West Shore, which was promoted by George Pullman and others. Vanderbilt may have thought so, and it's possible that the PRR picked up West Shore bonds as a bargaining chip, after the NYC drove it into bankruptcy. But if so, that would have beenafter the South Penn was underway.

Also, Vanderbilt got cold feet part way into the railroad's construction and tried to negotiate with the PRR to take it off his hands. But since he had only 1/3 control of it, he had to get a decent price for his fellow investors, which included Carnegie and a lot of Pittsburgh businessmen. But the PRR wouldn't pay his price. This is what brought Morgan into the affair, and the famous voyage on Morgan's yacht was strictly an effort to bring the PRR to terms.

In truth, the South Penn didn't die after the agreement. The PRR was prevented from taking control, and the Pittsburghers tried to keep the project alive. Finally, in 1904 the B&O (which was under PRR control at the time) bought the property at auction and then split it with the PRR. B&O (under the name of the Fulton, Bedford & Somerset) kept the route between Mt. Dallas and Port Perry, and a Cumberland Valley (PRR) subsidiary took ownership of the route between Harrisburg and Mt. Dallas. Thus with the line under two different ownerships, it was effectively neutralized so that no future empire builder could make use of it as a through route. While the PRR made noises about possibly extending a line over their part of the route, I think this was mostly to avoid any legal problems. The split B&O (FB&S)-PRR ownership continued until the turnpike commission bought the rights and property.

 #253421  by BaltOhio
 
By the way, I rewrote the Wikipedia entry, which was full of errors.
 #253835  by eriwakaranai
 
Thank you so much for your informations. great articles as well. I believe it is a masterpiece of modern technology. In either case, railroad or interstate highway.

 #254058  by choess
 
Good job on the Wikipedia article; I frobbed it a little and added a paragraph about predecessors. (There's more on those in Rainey & Kyper, if anyone wants to expand it.) Apropos, can you clear up some puzzles for me about the Beech Creek Railroad? As I understand, that was an essentially PRR-hostile project, started in 1883 so the NYC could get its own line into the Clearfield coal country and protect its coal supply from PRR control. First, the injunction that stopped the handover of the South Penn and the Beech Creek to PRR: was that just the Attorney General trust-busting, or was it instigated by other members of the former South Penn syndicate? Second, what happened to mend fences between PRR and NYC regarding the Beech Creek? Was that the Corsair conference? In particular, I'm thinking of the formation of the Beech Creek Extension RR, which with PRR trackage rights allowed the NYC to bypass much of the original Beech Creek on favorable grades.

 #254117  by BaltOhio
 
I'm not so strong on the Beech Creek affair, although it was generally assumed that the Beech Creek and South Penn were both part of the same strategy. The Beech Creek could (and did) help connect NYC's main line in upstate NY with the Reading at Newberry Jct. I know that in later years, at least, Newberry Jct. was NYC's largest connection with a single railroad. (That excludes major gateway points where there were multiple railroad connections.)

As for the Pennsylvania lawsuit, nobody now is clear where it started. Many people assumed that Franklin Gowan or his associates rattled the cage, but Gowan denied this. Well, maybe so, maybe not. Certainly the Reading gang had a major stake in the project and, along with certain of the Pittsburgh crowd, tried to keep the project going afterward. I have a transcript of the Syndicate meeting that followed the Corsair agreement, at which Hamilton Twombly, Vanderbilt's agent (and son-in-law) tried delicately to broach the subject of selling out. Needless to say, it was a heated meeting that pretty much ended in chaos.

A good reference on the Beech Creek and South Penn is Marvin W. Schlegel's "Ruler of the Reading: The Life of Franklin B. Gowan, 1836-1889," published by Archives Publishing Co. of Pennsylvania, Harrisburg, in 1947. Obviously it's now long out of print, but I got a used copy cheap via one of those internet dealers -- I forget which one.