Who Is The Boss On A Train?

Alot of people forget that the enginemen (engineer, fireman) and the trainman (conductors, brakemen, flagman) never really got along well until the last few years. Alot of guys still tell me about how they stayed in different motels and if you saw someone of the different craft you would walk on the other side of the street! And the never ending poker game, they used to play alot of poker out here too. Anyway it dont matter what craft you work in because theres always old so and so who sucks to work with and other guys that make the job fun so then it dont matter what craft your'e in. my 2 cents

TB Diamond wrote:An example of one of the disagreements I had with a brakeperson: Stopped at red absolute. Dispatcher came on and instructed us to take the power switch on hand and line it for our route. Now, there is a rule on how to do this correctly. The rule is not subject to personal interpretation (nor are any others). This particular brakeman thought otherwise and did not properly perform the task. I so informed him when he was back in the cab. He refused to do the job as called for in the rule book. No big deal. The conductor was in the second unit so I relayed the situation to him and requested that he instruct the brakeman on the proper procedure. He did so. The switch taken on hand and lined properly, we proceeded down the road at restricted speed to the next signal. Was I being an ego maniac? Think what you will, but had I proceeded there was a definite danger that the train would have wound up on the ground.

Sounds like you had a pretty lousy brakeman. That was my favorite job before I became an engineer. I took alot of pride being good help to the conductor and engineer.

Not doing an unsafe act just because told to do so does not make you an egomaniac. What I meant about the ego thing is the saying " Im the conductor and Im in charge or Im the engineer and Im incharge" mentality. Those are always the people I cant stand working with, because they think they know everything and will make sure you know it all day.

In the various terminals I worked out of over the years there were always a few bad eggs, and I do mean on both sides of the cab. Would rather had deep drill dentistry sans pain killer than work with some conductors. There were some firemen that were abrasive souls, too. Of course, am sure that the same thinking applied to some folks that had to work with me, as well. There is nothing unusual about personality clashes. Found that the best approach was to simply do my job safely and get the rig over the road as well as I knew how and was trained to do.

I have said it before, and I guess it needs saying again. I would rather watch a guy sleep all night, than to be alone on a train. Every place I have worked, I had to get my own bulletins, review them, etc. The CNDR can get the work orders, or he can leave it to the ENGR, his discretion, I guess. I wouldn't try to be a "cab conductor", and I have no care, really, about whats going on, outside, as long as guys aren't going to get hurt, or we aren't about to get fired. Sometimes, a clueless FNG is the perfect thing, for those days you need 12 hours pay, for 2 hours work. We on the right side of the cab (geographically speaking) have had no positions, we "traded" away, for our own, personal selfish gains. The left side, though, has seen the loss of: cabooses, flagmen, switchtenders, swingmen, rear brake and head brakeman, as well as firemen. (yes, they were under the "other" contract, not the engineers) Those same new guys , who seem to despise the union, and old heads (and really, who could blame them ) don't seem to mind "playing engineer", with the Idiot Boxes, out there in the yards. Why should I give a rats ass about you, and yours, when you obviously don't care about mine? We were waiting for safety rules to come into effect, with certified training, before determing if the boxes were going to be used. You other guys just saw another chance to sell out your "brothers", for a few extra pennies a day. Now I am supposed to think you are the "boss" of the train? We can be equal, but if you can't run it over the road, you certainly can't be "superior" to me. I would never tell a Cndr how to work, that's not what this conversation between the two engrs started as. I have to have every piece of paper, and info, the Cndr has. "You fly together, you die together" used to be the saying on the railroad. Nowadays, it seems more like "Every man for himself". Not really what the brotherhood of our crafts was supposed to be about. I am still the first guy to buy coffee, whan we stop in a good spot, whether it's my turn, or not. I have no desire to conduct, and never had. Those who think it's about "ego", or something similar, are either not reading carefully, or they just don't get it. Slowly, but surely, the carrier is using all of the new "tools" to remove power from the union, remove the self-thinking worker, and remove motivation and ambition, from the workplace. What's left, are a bunch of carrier drones, who do what is told of them to do, in contrast to rules, contracts and law. The one poster up there must be one of the lucky few, that hasn't had a guy with 30 days in service, conducting his train over the road, and onto a connecting carrier. Just sitting there, in wonderment, asking ME every single thing to do, for the entire trip, while I ponder who the hell was stupid enough to qualify this guy for road service, and why he wasn't even tested on physical characteristics. (remember those?) I hope that one day, I might have learned as much as some of the old heads have forgotten. Some of these "shake and bake" guys today, just don't know how much they don't know, and have cost a lot of other guys their jobs. Sometimes I feel sorry for them, but I guess the sentiments should really be RAGE, directed at the carriers, for doing what they are doing now. As usual, nothing but respect, for Brother UPRR Engineer, who started this with me, in another thread

TB Diamond wrote:An example of one of the disagreements I had with a brakeperson: Stopped at red absolute. Dispatcher came on and instructed us to take the power switch on hand and line it for our route. Now, there is a rule on how to do this correctly. The rule is not subject to personal interpretation (nor are any others). This particular brakeman thought otherwise and did not properly perform the task. I so informed him when he was back in the cab. He refused to do the job as called for in the rule book. No big deal. The conductor was in the second unit so I relayed the situation to him and requested that he instruct the brakeman on the proper procedure. He did so. The switch taken on hand and lined properly, we proceeded down the road at restricted speed to the next signal. Was I being an ego maniac? Think what you will, but had I proceeded there was a definite danger that the train would have wound up on the ground.

What did he do? Put the switch on "hand", throw it, and then return it to "power"? That's a quick way to break a switch or go on the ground when it throws itself under your train.

The guy did O.K. until it came time to operate the hand lever. He looked at the switch, saw that it was lined for our movement and then walked back to the locomotive. Therefore the points may have "floated" as our train passed over the switch, putting us in the ditch. When I related this fact to him he became very indignant, so I simply requested that the conductor instruct him on the proper way to take a power switch on hand, which he did. Our rule stated, if I recall correctly, that power could not be restored until at least one engine or car had passed the switch. This was real fun when the train involved was at 16,000+ tons as most of ours were as one could not mount or dismount moving equipment and a second full stop had to be made.

That was my next possible scenario; that the guy walked up to line the switch on hand but sees that's its already "lined" for movement the way you want it and just does nothing.

Where I work, the whole movement must be made on hand before returning to power. I've tried lining the switch for my train and putting it back to power, and a few seconds later the switch throws itself back reverse. So when an interlocked switch "fails", anything's possible.

And its always funny watching a new guy take a switch on hand, throw the lever, and nothing happens! Then the points move when you throw the lever back so basically you throw the switch twice to line it.

GOLDEN-ARM wrote: As usual, nothing but respect, for Brother UPRR Engineer, who started this with me, in another thread

Hey Thanks Buddy!! Mighty fine post there also dude. Sorry i come across as a disrespectful punk ass kid sometimes. I get where your coming from now after reading your last post, i dont believe your a hoghead switchmen. Maybe insted of the "Boss", we should refer to ourselves as the "Top Dog" of the crew since our craft holds the most skill on any job.

<Digs out rulebook>
CROR 106 (a) A train will run under the direction of the conductor
CROR 106 (b) The Locomotive Engineer of a train is in charge of and responsible for the operation of the engine of such train.