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  • Whippany Railway Museum Official Thread

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Pertaining to all railroading subjects, past and present, in New Jersey

Moderator: David

 #67711  by Angus202
 
Both units were moved over to the mo-town coach yard in a large equipment ferry a while back -at least over a year ago-. Those bearings dont look to be in such great shape, the wheels and rails where its presently sitting where heavily stained with grease comming from the bearings for the few days after it was moved. I'm doubtfull this unit will ever be restored to operating shape, I think itd be lucky if they just fix the trucks just to move it around like the 22 as a "rolling billboard". The units cab was also broken into years ago and trashed, not to mention its just sat and rotted since its last use (i think to shuttle around loads of tie-plates when the NYS&W rebuilt the upper half of the sourthern division with CWR)

-Ryan

 #67855  by rvrrhs
 
Back when they were stored on the NJT site, someone from URHS offered me one of the two for my RVRR Historical Society for the price of moving it--about $30K. As I recall, one was to be canibalized for parts (esp. those problem bearings) for the other one, and the "remains" of the donor would be what I would get. I thought it was #17 that was to be restored, though.

Of course, since there was not at the time anyone but me involved in the RVRRHS, I couldn't come up with thirty grand...not that the current start-up RVRRHS has any money yet either.

Still, I'm glad to hear that the original livery will be restored.

 #67942  by PVRX
 
The 16 was missing a number of parts and was to be a cosmetic restoration in the maroon and white stripe scheme of the RVRR.
The 17 was the last one, of the pair, to operate and may be easier to restore mechanically.

 #105755  by njt4172
 
Ok, so then it is safe to assume that this project is now dead!!! ....Pretty unfortunate.... :( :(

 #105772  by james1787
 
Does this mean the restoration project is dead? Or are they back to soley raising money from the public and businesses? I'm guessing nothing will be done to get to the grant in time.. which sucks. It would be nice to see an NJ owned operating Steam Engine again. Stupid DOT

 #105811  by njt4172
 
james1787 wrote:Does this mean the restoration project is dead? Or are they back to soley raising money from the public and businesses? I'm guessing nothing will be done to get to the grant in time.. which sucks. It would be nice to see an NJ owned operating Steam Engine again. Stupid DOT
If they have to revert back to raising money from the public then it will take 100 years to get the $500,000 or so needed for restoration....I really hope something can get done by the end of April.....

Steve

 #105816  by cjvrr
 
Since I work for the County, I asked the people in charge, here is the answer I got from the Morris County DOT;
The county received $380,000 to restore the locomotive for the Whippany Railway Museum. County Counsel has just assigned us an attorney to draft a contract between the county and the rail museum. Once a contract is signed, the Freeholders can sign the task order form from NJDOT, and then the project will be bid. At the same time the county will be looking for a construction/project manager to certify the work through the process.
I don't know the back story, but from the Whippany RR Museum site they also needed to raise money prior to work commencing on the project. All I can say is I have dealt with Tea-21 and ISTEA money for County construction projects and they are an absolute pain in the A** to get approvals for. If you do not have all your ducks in the correct row, you don't get the money. When the project is as something as far out as a steam engine restoration and not a building restoration I can imagine the people at NJDOT Local Aid (the clearing house for the money) have no idea what they are doing.

If you know of anyone that could be the project manager for this restoration, let me know, and I will pass the name along to the right people.

Chris Vitz
Principal Engineer
County of Morris

 #106103  by 4353
 
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Last edited by 4353 on Tue Mar 15, 2005 6:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
 #106121  by Don Maxton
 
Why is the MCDOT so adamantly against this project? Anyone have insight on this?

 #106127  by cjvrr
 
4353;


"In reply to cjvrr's statement regarding the County of Morris "looking for a construction/project manager to certify the work through the process"...this is just another form of the County's stalling tactics. At the February meeting, word is, that NJ DOT suggested that the MUSEUM would assign someone from their organization to work as the project manager and sign off on all paperwork. NOW the County is looking for someone else?? Who made that decision? And who will pay for that person's salary/expense? MCDOT probably intends for the salary to come from the grant money. Just another way for someone at the County level to line their pockets and drain the availbale funding with the hope that this project will die. These people are so corrupt it is disgusting."



Obviously from your comments you are closely involved with the project, but to claim that the MCDOT is corrupt is outright wrong! I do not know why there were the alleged delays, but I will continue to ask questions.

The MCDOT consists of a total of two people and a bunch of newer assistants. Mr. Reilly who had been a driving force there retired last year. Those two people are transportation planners, not restoration experts or railfans. The steam engine project is not the only project they work on. They apply for funding for ALL County projects and have other projects which are definitely a higher priority (to the County) than the steam engine. While it may be your only project, having safe roads and bridges is more important than restoring a steam engine.

Would you rather have an outside someone that knows what they are doing and pushes the project along, or the same people you claim to be corrupt? And no-one is saying that someone from the museum will not be project manager, but the people at the MCDOT must go through a process to find an acceptable person, they can't just pick someone because they have scraped paint before. And while that person may be a good project manager, can they prepare payment vouchers, applications, etc.? If they have never done that end of things before it would be a problem.

Since you are so involved with the project, would you like me to put your name on the possible project manager list? You seem to have the fire in you to get it done.

One additional note, if a County employee were selected their salary would be paid as it normally is from the general funds, it would not come from the grant money. So no one from the County will "line their pockets". I can't say the same for an outside consultant, but it depends upon how the grant was written. If it included consulting fees, than that money may come from the grant. I can't see anyone becoming PM for free and it will most likely be a full time job. If the engine is sent somewhere, wouldn't you want to be reimbursed for travel expenses?

I have one additional question, since I am not a steam engine guy, nor have I been involved with this project or any other restoration project. How does anyone expect to fully restore a steam engine for $380,000? I wouldn't think this number is even close to half what would be needed. Even 5 years ago this would not have been enough to do a full restoration. And if you talk about moving it to and from a shop, there goes probably 10% of the budget. Is the engine really in that good of shape that minimal work is required to get it running again? How much does it cost to restore an engine anyway?

Chris, who has worked for Morris County as an engineer / construction project manager for 9 years and has NEVER seen any corruption of any kind.

 #106133  by SteveHepler
 
After reading these posts, I'll add...

I attended the meeting on February 9th. The Morris County Transportation Director came into the meeting room and took us all by surprise with his anti-4039 stance. Frank Reilly, who as Chris noted, retired at the end of August 2004. He told me at his retirement party that he would still be working with the county as a consultant, and that he wanted to remain involved with various projects, i.e. Lackawanna Cutoff, etc, as well as 4039. His absence at the February meeting was a bit strange to me.

Are the people at Morris County DOT corrupt ? Probably not, but the events of the past show that there is very little interest in this project. Where did that attitude come from ? The lower level employees, as well as Reilly's replacement cannot be held to blame. However, if Reilly had any idea that there was trouble coming from his superior, maybe he could have alerted us at the Museum to try and correct the situation.

While there ARE other county-related projects that are of larger concern, that is no excuse to let this one die. THIS is OUR project. We've worked very hard in the past to purchase the locomotive, sweated and toiled over it to get it from Whippany to Honesdale, PA in 1995-'96 and have continually worked to raise additional funding. We have also LOST funding, due to lack of progress. Hardly a week goes by without some prior contributer calling, e-mailing or writing to us, asking about the progress of the engine rebuild. And we have to tell them that there is no news. We had a large commitment of funds that were eventually withdrawn because this project went nowhere. Is it any wonder why we at the Museum may be a little miffed ?

This locomotive is a switcher...not a big fancy road engine. It is not superheated, has no modern, high-tech appliances to rebuild or upgrade. The grant money is not our only source of income set aside for the rehab, but yes, it IS the major chunk. To lose these dollars now because someone does not agree with the historic preservation merits of TEA-21 is unacceptable.

BTW, I was named as a possible project manager at the meeting. If the county wants one of their own general funded employees as the PM, that is fine.

Three and a half years is too long to get a project moving. The engine could have been restored in that amount of time.

Steve Hepler
President, Whippany Railway Museum

 #106155  by cjvrr
 
Steve,

Thank you for the reponse.

I would stongly suggest that you and anyone else interested in this project, come to the next County Freeholder meeting to push for action. The next meeting is on March 23. You can contact the Freeholders Office at 973-285-6010 to get the exact time and place. Showing up for this meeting will put the people in power on the hot seat and since one of the Freeholders is running for the Governor's post, you should get a pretty quick reaction.

Chris Vitz
 #111275  by gravelyfan
 
Is this the former Whippany Toonerville locomotive? It is apparently moving to Creede, Colorado (in southern Colorado, former D&RGW line). Seems to be on a really heavy duty flat car!

You'll have to scroll down about 15 or so photos to get to the shots of the 148. There are a number of photos of it.


http://www.cumbrestoltecshops.com/SHOPS ... hweek3.htm

 #111308  by EDM5970
 
Well, its the former Whippany River engine, (FEC, US Sugar, BR&W) on its way to Colorado. The late Sam Freeman wouldn't allow the operators of the passenger operation to letter "Toonerville" on his engine.
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