• Which cities ran PCCs?

  • General discussion about fallen trolley and interurban lines in North America, past and present.
General discussion about fallen trolley and interurban lines in North America, past and present.

Moderator: Aa3rt

  by walt
 
You should also include Toronto. In the 1960's-70's it had the largest operating fleet of PCC's in North America ( Philadelphia was second). In fact, when the late 1970's Woodland Depot fire in West Philadelphia destroyed many of the PCCs then being used on the Subway-Surface Lines, SEPTA turned to Toronto to obtain replacements. This resulted in the only group of Pullman-Standard built PCC's ever to run in Philly being acquired. ( Prior to that time, Philly had operated St. Louis Car Company products exclusively.)

  by Leo Sullivan
 
Another good question is "in what cities did PCCs run". I know, but not in detail that PCCs were lent between companies and, suspect that there were many more examples than I know. The first PCC at Shaker Heights was a Boston All-Electric. What other such examples are there, perhaps in cities that didn't buy any of their own? Of course that car first actually was tested in Worcester Mass. as were many others though by that time they no longer went out in street. Did the Pittsburgh car run in Buffalo? there were standard gauge trucks available. Any one know any examples?

  by walt
 
Others here may have a more exact answer, but I would suspect that the list posted earler by several members may be the complete list. By the time the PCC car was placed into production, the financial state of traction companies was such, that many companies that didn't purchase new PCCs, but were able to survive into the 1950's were able to acquire used PCCs from companies that bustituted their PCC equipped streetcar lines. Philadelphia, for instance, in addtion to the very large fleet of new PCCs it acquired, purchased second hand PCCs from St. Louis ( the city) and Kansas City. Some of the Dallas PCC's wound up in Boston, and Toronto's fleet included former Kansas City PCC Cars and former Birmingham ( Ala) cars---some of which wound up in Philly after the late 1970's Woodland Depot fire.

  by Leo Sullivan
 
I'm really asking about the very early PCC era when there were more potential buyers. Several companies belonged to the development consortium but, never actually bought PCCs. Did any of them borrow
one early on? Also, was Boston the only company to buy a single car order? Of course it was originally ordered by Brooklyn but, never went there and was, unfortunately, scrapped early.
  by n2xjk
 
Brooklyn PCC #1000 was a single-car order from Clark Equipment Co. The car was ordered in 1935, delivered in 1937.
  by walt
 
n2xjk wrote:Brooklyn PCC #1000 was a single-car order from Clark Equipment Co. The car was ordered in 1935, delivered in 1937.
Brooklyn PCC#1000 is a unique unit in more ways than one. First, it is the only PCC streetcar ever built by the Clark Manufacturing Co., Second, it is the only PCC car built using aluminum ( all of the others were steel), Third it was built with standee windows in 1935-37. Standee windows did not appear on other PCC cars until the mid 1940's. AND it still exists, being on display at the Trolley Museum of New York at Kingston, NY.

  by pennsy
 
Hi Walt,

Are you serious ? You mean a trolley or streetcar company from wherever actually ordered only ONE PCC streetcar ? What did they do, pass the hat to get enough cash to make the purchase ?
  by n2xjk
 
Well, Brooklyn also ordered 100 PCCs from St. Louis in 1935. For whatever reason they ordered only one from Clark. Maybe it was the combination of aluminum being too exotic at the time and Clark being an untried builder.
  by Gerry6309
 
n2xjk wrote:Well, Brooklyn also ordered 100 PCCs from St. Louis in 1935. For whatever reason they ordered only one from Clark. Maybe it was the combination of aluminum being too exotic at the time and Clark being an untried builder.
The 100 car order was 99 cars for Brooklyn and 1 for Boston(3001). The Clark car was part of Brooklyn's ongoing effort to support PCC deveopment. It was a car which was far ahead of its time. Many of its features turned up in the post-war (1945) model. After unification put a stop to streetcar development in Brooklyn, the program moveed to St. Louis.
  by walt
 
n2xjk wrote:Well, Brooklyn also ordered 100 PCCs from St. Louis in 1935. For whatever reason they ordered only one from Clark. Maybe it was the combination of aluminum being too exotic at the time and Clark being an untried builder.
Also remember that, although Clark built only one complete PCC car, it was the major supplier of the patented PCC trucks ( the Clark B-2 trucks). It was probably more cost effective for Clark to concentrate on supplying the trucks, while St. Louis & Pullman-Standard assembled the complete units.

  by jtbell
 
walt wrote:You should also include Toronto.
If you're going to include Toronto, you should also include Montreal.

  by Gerry6309
 
Vancouver also had a few FCCs...

  by walt
 
You could include both Montreal and Vancouver. Toronto is noteworthy, though, because, at one time, it ran more PCC cars than any city in North America. ( Philadelphia was second).
  by fordhamroad
 
-as a Brooklyn kid, I spent a lot of time riding the PCC's as well as the older trolley models in the thirties and forties.. Riding the Smith-9th line and the McDonald Ave line were usually all PCC's, went to high school daily on one. Best and smoothest transit ride I have ever had. Quiet, comfortable, smooth. The plastic seats were easy to keep clean. I remember 1000 well because it was unusual, and it occasionally turned up when you were riding. Also 1001. always noticed the number really. It is up at Branford Trolley Museum, so I had another ride on it a few years ago.
-it was a great disappointment when the PCC's were replaced with smelly diesel busses. A jolting ride, weaving in and out of traffic -- not nearly as nice. And the puffs of acrid exhaust as you stood at curbside.
-after NYC gave up its trolleys, I used to go over to Newark every once in a while to ride a PCC, just for the fun of it.
-However, the main question I wanted to raise is:
How many cities had DOUBLE ENDED PCC's? Anyone have personal experience of these?

Thanks

Roger

  by aline1969
 
The question now is, what cities still run PCC cars everyday in regular service without a break, so no historic lines like San Francisco.

I can only think of Boston. Philly runs them now on route 15, but there was a break of no PCC cars running.