Whats the deal with highnose locos?

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 465364.jpg

Whats the deal with these? Seems like a very unsafe design to have such an enormous blind spot, isnt it? What is in that space that they don't have in all other loco designs? Just seems strange to me.

Here we go again! More steel between you and what lies ahead.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hood_unit
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Such an enormous blind spot? you're going to go where the tracks take you, you don't have to steer a train. If some idiot drives in front of you at a crossing you probably won't have time to stop anyway. Here's something to think about - look through some pictures until you find a steam engine. Unless it's an SP cab-forward, take a good look at the cab and consider what the engineer saw for over 100 years. The boiler! Yes we like low noses but there's nothing drastically wrong or unsafe about a high short hood. What do you think you can see when a low-nose engine is backing up?

There is no blind spot. I will post a pair of pictures shortly. Both are from the engineers seat. One in a high hood, the other a low hood. The view of the right of way is identical, as line of sight down the tracks is concerned. It's true, you can't enjoy the trees, on the opposite side, from a point around 100 feet, ahead of the loco. The front platform and railings provide the same cut-off point, on the rails, and the view down the gauge, and into the horizon, is identical. Collision protection, steam generators, toilets and storage, are some reasons for the high hood. Unless you are trying to see into the trees, or whatever, on the firemans side, you lose nothing from the view. "Here we go again"? Sorry, I don't follow that logic, at all. Most locos of the road unit type, were originally built, when they first appearing on the scene, as a long hood forward loco, with a high short hood as well. It was a while, until some roads opted for a short hood leader, then a chopped short hood, as well. Some roads, like NW and the SOU, used a high short hood, and long hood leading, on all of the freight road units they ordered. Protection against collisions, with logging vehicles, seems to be the major reason for that deciscion. Some say the steam locos had the cabs in the rear, so the early diesels followed suit. Either way, a high short hood provides only the smallest loss of vision, and then, only whats across the rails, on the opposite side of the loco, from a point of around 100 feet ahead of the loco, back to the loco. Regards

Took a while, but here are some recent photos. Please note, the distance from the handrail, directly in front of the windshield, to the ground. This is what you see, regardless of height of nose. The ROW is also clearly visible, and "most" signals will be directly to the right of the track, or above the track, slightly off-centered, to the right of the affected track. The photos show inside and outside pix, and you can see the view I have, from a position centered in the seat, seat centeed in the window, with the seat in the fully lowered position. Unless you are running a "tight" left hand curve, the view is pretty much the same, minus the ROW on the extreme left edge of the windshield, and what would be seen, from the two center windshields. (also the views of the extreme left ROW, not affecting operating the loco) Regards........

AH, now there's a real classic-- 24RL and a "cash-register" control stand!! One of EMD's best ever, I think.

Is that 'ol girl a good runner, G-A? I sure miss ours (1732); hope to have her back among the living next season (needs an engine transplant).

Are those boxes of fusees? Do you guys use them in such mass quantities? I have heard it's usually overcast and murky in the Pacific NW, but, like, wow....

l008com wrote:http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo ... 465364.jpg

Whats the deal with these? Seems like a very unsafe design to have such an enormous blind spot, isnt it? What is in that space that they don't have in all other loco designs? Just seems strange to me.

The Short High Hoods were consitered Safe and provided protection in head on accdents so it is or was beleved but limited to low speed impacts. Any ways The Short Hoods depending on that Railroads usesage of it deturmaned what went in the short hood. If they had units like GP7's or GP9's fitted for passenger service a steam generator was put in the hood to provide heat for the passenger cars. The air tanks were most ofton put on top of the long hood so that a shorter fuel tank and a water tank could be added under the frame.

Some important "high short hood" facts for the modern generation not familiar:

1. On a large number of locomotives, what we now refer to as the "short hood" was originally called the "rear hood."

2. All types built prior to the introduction of the EMD GP7 were offered with single control stand, long (engine) hood leading as standard. ALCO offered its large 16-cylinder C-C units standard as short hood leading, and changed the standard for B-B units during production of the DL-701/DL-702 (RS-11 / RSD-12). (But that didn't happen until the mid-1950's.)

3. Originally, ALCO-GE, BLW and F-M used the rear hood for containing a steam generator if fitted. However, both Baldwin and later ALCO-GE used the rear hood to contain resistors/blowers for dynamic braking if offered. These two makers were thus unable to offer both dynamic brake and steam generator in the same unit (although a few RS-3 units were apparently built with both, and raised short hoods) and in the case of ALCO-GE the lack of space in this hood prevented road switchers from having the same dynamic brake capacity as road freight units. Both BLW (actually B-L-H by that point) and ALCO later raised the hoods and moved dynamic brake equipment to the long (engine) hood to allow fitting of both S/G and D/B which made them competitive in this respect with EMD units.

Thus, the ORIGINAL reasoning behind the physical design of such units was purely functional. Provision of crash protection was not, back then, the primary consideration.

GREAT shots, Golden-Arm; that ought to lay the visibility question to rest for once and for all. I might note the vast number of pictures I've seen of early "low nose" units wherein it's obvious that the crew has papered the center front window with various coverings to block the sun!

-Will Davis

H.F.Malone wrote:AH, now there's a real classic-- 24RL and a "cash-register" control stand!! One of EMD's best ever, I think.

Is that 'ol girl a good runner, G-A? I sure miss ours (1732); hope to have her back among the living next season (needs an engine transplant).

Are those boxes of fusees? Do you guys use them in such mass quantities? I have heard it's usually overcast and murky in the Pacific NW, but, like, wow....

Some of them here still have the "potato-chip" can throttle stands in them. They all pull hard here, and they ALL have fully functioning dynamic brakes, as well!!! A lot of sand, a little "jimmie", and you can pull 1500 amps, at will, for as long as it takes, to get up to speed.
Yeah, the guys here are required to bomb the crossings with fusees, so it's easier to carry a case, instead of refilling the box, every few hours.
We have GP-9s, SD-9's, GP-18's and SD-7's. They have been repowering them, with 645's, though......