What if the D&H double-tracked??

Why wouldn't or couldn't they just have made it single track, and removed one set of light each way from each mast? Didn't they do that in most of the areas long before CP acquired D&H?

------> Mark

Under Rule 251, a two track mainline has an eastbound track and a westbound track. Each one is only signalled in one direction. Movements against current of traffic are done by train order and at restricted speed (IE very slow).

It was less expensive and used less signal equipment to install originally. Just like your radio or television, a lot of that stuff originally used vaccuum tubes in the electronic gear, so more equipment meant more maintenance. By the 1980s when a lot of that stuff was obsolete, you could either buy the latest signal gear, or try to round up parts for the old gear and reconfigure it as needed. No picnic either way.

So far as I know, other than stretches like through Belden Tunnel, the line remained double track between Binghamton and Albany until CP rebuilt it.

SO I guess that the D&H would've single tracked earlier if it had had the $$$$$$$

Wouldn't a location just west of the old Oneonta Yard be a good place for a lengthened passing siding complete with high speed turnouts so trains can switch tracks at normal trackspeeds? It seems to me that Oneonta would also be a good place to base helper sets to assist trains over Belden Hill.

Why not Afton? There's enough space between the Switching lead and ~MP 588 where the grade starts that most trains should be able to stop and have pushers added without tying up traffic.

Why not have them based in Bingahmton as well?

I had the fun of riding the D&H aboard The Adirondack just a month ago, and before the trip, I had the same question in mind. Recalling that Canadian Pacific hit the brakes on upgrading the line because traffic volume didn't justify the investment, I was extra vigilant for freight traffic.

Passing a yard near Saratoga, one string of covered hoppers was in a line, a D&H painted diesel on the point. OK, that was one.

In the hours to come, The Adirondack passed a total of three southbound freights, far less than I had anticipated. Yes, we're in an economic crisis, but wouldn't you think that backordered items would still be enroute? You have to wonder what traffic was like at the same time two years ago.

You ask "What if the D&H double-tracked?", I ask what if the alignment were changed? I'm not familiar with the line down to Binghamton, however I've ridden north enough, and the welded rail was a welcome improvement. We hit a stretch of section rail north of Saratoga that nearly took my teeth out and when I say we hit it, WE REALLY HIT IT. I counted at least three stretches of section rail, and I noticed the train was able to travel consistently faster, than the last time I had made the trip some twelve years previous. The section rail sucks the life out of the schedule, making the train fall from 23 to 35 minutes late.

Looking at that line today in many ways is like the old adage from oil companys changing brand names; "New name, same old Gas". CP is encountering the same problems the D&H ran into; 1) Lack of traffic to justify upgrades. 2) Low speeds effecting delivery times, but I have to say, I saw a big improvement over the way it was in the 60's through the 90's.

Double tracking would improve speeds only in eliminating the waiting time on passing tracks. To make this route more appealing to shippers and travellers requires far more than double-tracking and welded rail. France and Germany dug entirely new ROW's for TGV and ICE trains, virtually drawn with a ruler in arrow straight precision. It struck me while going through the woods and farmland on that trip that such a realignment to eliminate curves, is only hampered by a lack of boardroom vision and capital to execute such a project. The land is there, the land is virtually empty, cut a new ROW for high-speed passenger and higher speed freight transport. If there had not been a political upheaval in Quebec effecting domestic Canadian and foreign investment there, it may have been done twenty five years ago.

We can't think in terms of going retro, like adding more tracks, when the infrastructure needs a full replacement. That line was made when locomotives were tea kettles, and trains weren't two and three miles long. Make a new ROW for modern, faster equipment, and undoubtedly, it would be double-tracked to start. Then there's the issue of generating revenue. If you build it, will they come?

D/

I vote for new ribbon rail, all new composite or wood ties, new or recycled ballast and 10,000' passing sidings every 10 miles. On the north end that would improve Amtrak's timekeeping and leave room for 16 more trains above the eight that ply the route now (including Amtrak). Theoretically, a single track railroad built to those standards can easily handle 24 trains over a 24 hour period. I've seen NS squeeze as many as 43 through just such a railroad. (NS' Atlanta to Macon former Southern Railway main line.)

You're absolutely correct; ribbon rail would make a tremendous difference, and it already has. On one trip in 1984, the train CREPT through the woods and I could have outpaced the train on a bicycle for a good part of the trip.

I doubt if they will finish putting in welded rail until the end of the recession.

D/

Dieter wrote:Double tracking would improve speeds only in eliminating the waiting time on passing tracks. To make this route more appealing to shippers and travellers requires far more than double-tracking and welded rail. France and Germany dug entirely new ROW's for TGV and ICE trains, virtually drawn with a ruler in arrow straight precision. It struck me while going through the woods and farmland on that trip that such a realignment to eliminate curves, is only hampered by a lack of boardroom vision and capital to execute such a project. The land is there, the land is virtually empty, cut a new ROW for high-speed passenger and higher speed freight transport. If there had not been a political upheaval in Quebec effecting domestic Canadian and foreign investment there, it may have been done twenty five years ago.

We can't think in terms of going retro, like adding more tracks, when the infrastructure needs a full replacement. That line was made when locomotives were tea kettles, and trains weren't two and three miles long. Make a new ROW for modern, faster equipment, and undoubtedly, it would be double-tracked to start. Then there's the issue of generating revenue. If you build it, will they come?D/

That's never going to happen Dieter.

For starters the vast tracks of "empty land" you see are either privately owned or part of the Adirondack Park which is one of the largest conservation areas in the US. So it isn't exactly available to run a ROW.

Secondly this ain't flat land railroad you are working with. The farther off the lake you get the higher the elevation becomes so you are still dealing with a significant grade. Then there is the small problem of blasting through all that very hard rock you see to make the right of way.

Finally the amount of capital needed will NEVER be offset by a significantly improved revenue stream. For starters the D&H is and has been (since the demise of coal) strictly a bridge line. There are very few revenue generating opportunities online. It is easier and cheap to run around the natural/fiscal obstacles than to build a new ROW. For a historical example of how silly it would be just look to the NYO&W as an example of wasted moneies.

So NO, if you build it they will NOT come.