Westbury Wreck 02/26/2019

a pair like that usually gets impounded, so officially off limits, till all litigations and investigation is finished.

In other words they’ll sit like that for years in Hillside or wherever...

Speaking of cars that are temporarily out of commission, did they finally scrap M3 car 9870, or is it still on the grounds under investigation? (Brentwood 1/22/2013 incident)

I think I saw it in Plesser's Appliances last week. Its a refrigerator now. 9869 however (with a blue stripe), is coupled to 9772 (sans blue stripe)

I know that 9869 and 9972 are coupled together, but was that a joke about being a refrigerator in an appliance store located in Babylon? Wait, it has to be.

Yes, 9870 went out to scrap with the 20 or so other M3s stored in Arch Street

freightguy wrote:I don’t understand how Long Island Newsday has these 3 guys painted as martyrs in the Westbury wreck? From initial reports they broke 2 laws by leaving the scene of a motor vehicle accident. Leaving the accident scene and going around activated crossing gates for another traffic violation. There are also reports via video footage of them arriving/leaving a bar in that time span. That would be a third infraction if operating a vehicle under the influence. That’s Newsday reporting though with today writing about the 1982 Herricks Rd Incident with the 9 teenage kids in a van.

Seems to me some bias of Newsday to state these were family men just leaving their job and in turn getting struck by 2 trains at a local crossing near their place of employment. They probably caused damage into the millions and also injuries to people on the WB Ronkonkoma train.

Freightguy and Everyone: (going back to topic on this subject)

I wanted to add some more thoughts to this topic after watching a group of media reports that were posted on YouTube: CBS2, NBC4, ABC7, Fox5, PIX11 and News12 Long Island about the Tuesday February 26 Westbury accident...

Only CBS2 got the actual length of Platform A that was demolished by the train correct-112 feet. Platform A is now two cars shorter which is a minor inconvenience (10 cars) at Westbury.

Many of these reports were more concerned about the three men that were killed in this accident then what happened with the trains or crews involved and for that matter there was more mention for inconvenience to commuters affected instead of the massive cleanup effort underway to restore service back to normal which was accomplished in around 48 hours.

Another CBS2 news report interviewed a young woman who was aboard the westbound train from Ronkonkoma (#2065) in which she directly called out the driver of the vehicle for not only being responsible for the death of his two friends she mentioned the two LIRR trains and the passengers on board both that were hurt and the thousands that were inconvenienced in the aftermath of the accident - that impressed me...MACTRAXX

Slippy wrote:First things first; Newsday should only be used to line your bird cage. Their extreme bias and lack of anything intellectual has been the trend for many years. Most media outlets named the victims well before they did. Freightguy brings up some solid points. You take a serious gamble running around the gates, and in this case fleeing the scene of an accident. I hope the crew members involved are doing well and my hats off to all associated personnel who played an intricate roll in getting the plant back up and running in the time they did. It disgusts me when certain rail enthusiasts care more about updating their rosters, detours, or speaking about electrifying the central branch. This is someone’s worst nightmare having to deal with a grade crossing accident. Show a little bit more respect to those who are in this line of work.

Everyone:

After reading Slippy's sharp criticism of this topic I had to reply in some manner:

1-The two cars that slammed into Platform A in Westbury were identified by the OP right at the start of this topic. There would have been no need to bring them up again if the freak occurrence of somehow ingesting parts of the platform into the cab and passenger compartment not happened.

2-I replied about detours only after the subject was brought up. As I mentioned in my post above many including the media were more concerned about the temporary inconvenience to passengers then the efforts to clean up the wreck and restore service by the LIRR.

3-The Central Branch and its future electrification is good discussion - in its own topic. This was brought up again in the aftermath of this accident because of the alternative service options that would have been available if this route was electrified with any Main Line service suspension.

4-The LIRR crew members of both trains thankfully were not hurt or worse - especially the Engineer of #2065 - noting how platform slabs entered the cab and passenger compartment of the first west car of that train. Any grade crossing accident anyplace is a potential tragedy that never has to be.

The LIRR crews involved in the restoration effort are the unsung heroes in the aftermath of this wreck - they got the derailed cars removed and restored track and infrastructure in only about 48 hours. Even with all the damage at Westbury rush hour service in the prime directions ran on the single open track past the site (with schedule changes and cancellations) over those two days. Just this was impressive under these circumstances - and again is something that the LIRR should get more credit (and respect) for from passengers, the media and for that matter us all. MACTRAXX

Chucky Schumy wants to know whats the delay with PTC but hey, PTC won't prevent this kind of accident which is what I precisely been saying for a long while about what politicians don't understand or possibly don't care about in order to push their agenda or special interests. PTC in general would eliminate a number of potential accidents such as the ones at Hoboken and Atlantic terminal, or the derailments on MNR and Amtrak around curves with speed restrictions. But a car or truck going around the gates at the last moment with a train speeding down the crossing at 80MPH will not be prevented. Why isn't there anyone out there who would speak up and shut those people up for giving false impressions of what PTC can do when the politicians themselves are not even experts on railroads or railroad safety? While on that subject, we have had instances where technology has failed miserably such as in DC where one subway train operating in automated mode rammed into the rear of another subway train due to a glitch in the system where the train ahead in the next block was not detected by the following train. This is not PTC but automated subway lines like those in DC, San Fran and Baltimore or Miami are designed to prevent collisions. That didn't happen in that situation and people lost their lives as a result of it. There is no perfection in the world and machines and computers are only as good as the ones who created them.

On the other subject regarding the media and their reports on the accident, would they have reported the same thing if the engineer would have had his body severed in half by the concrete slab entering the side of the rail car? or what if this was a full train with several passengers sitting behind the engineer's cab? Or what if instead of derailing into the Westbury platform what would have happened if the westbound would have derailed into the eastbound train? The potential destruction of this accident is something that nobody wants to consider but believe me, both train crews (and now probably the rest of the employees on the LIRR) are absolutely envisioning it in their heads as we speak. Engineers don't want to hit anything with their trains, but on the tops of their lists of things that they don't want to see out their front windows are 1: another train on the same track 2: stalled tanker truck or low boy 3: a vehicle stuck on the tracks while another train is coming on the adjacent track going the opposite direction. In this scenario, one or both trains are guaranteed to derail once the laws of physics takes over. In this case, the faster moving train derailed. This was absolute luck that there wasn't more injuries or deaths. I have no sympathy for the driver. The two passengers as adults should have done their part to stop the erratic driver from fleeing the scene and driving around lowered gates. they could have made a left prior to the crossing by the cemetery and gone to Post Ave under the bridge. Newsday's credibility has been shot for many years along with all the other media outlets. They have always made it a priority to bash the LIRR and it's employees every chance they get. They could care less about the crew's lives and certainly couldn't give any credit to the M of W guys who did a superb job at restoring service as quickly as they did. The cottonelle toilet paper in my bathroom has more value than that garbage rag known as Newsday. Leave it up to them to make 3 people into martyrs who potentially put many lives at risk and millions of dollars in damages to public property. I will take a bigger bite into this. I bet you that they tried to flee because they were illegals or gang members and didn't want the unwanted attention that would be brought to them if the Police were to stop them for fleeing the scene of a minor fender bender. You can hate me for what i'm saying here but if it looks like a pig and if it "oinks" like a pig then it must be a pig right? Fyi, Newsday won't tell you that because it doesn't fit their narrative to report facts.

Please help me to understand the reason full quadrant gates are not required is . . . . . . ?

regards,
vince

Money. In a make-believe world of Schumer and the rest of that sewer, its something to add to the already unnecessary overlays of safety apparatus installed at crossings to prevent what a person might do to kill themselves (and others). All of that becomes another unit to maintain. However, if common sense is applied, as what did not occur here out of desperation to flee the area, the use of total crossing blockage apparatus is not needed. Still, when the type of people that killed themselves in this event act out their crime, they would only bust through the gates anyway. Nature culls out the stupid. Railroad people suffer from its results.
I hope the two engineers who had to witness this event are getting the support they need. They will never forget it, the sights and sounds. Sleep apnea? YUP!

not saying anyone should be chucky fan , but who else speaks up and gives a shit?

Newsday (surprisingly) did have a story commending the LIRR on restoring full-service as quickly as they did. But yes they were wrong to portray the three men in the car as martyrs. The incident was caused by the reckless driver of the SUV. Period.

Chuck Schumer's latest grandstanding didn't say that PTC would have prevented this incident. He was criticizing the manufacturer of the PTC equipment that turned out to be defective and must be replaced. He was insisting that the manufacturer foot the bill for that screw-up, not the taxpayers.

Re: the four-quadrant crossing gates, one problem with them is if a car gets stuck on the crossing as in the incident in Westchester a few years ago, full gates could trap the car on the crossing. However there is one type of gate that swings sideways if pushed by a vehicle and would solve that problem. But like another poster said earlier it always comes down to money.

By now Gate arms are hinged or "breakaway"when hit types, quad gates,the gate arms are the last to drop opposite of the direction of travel,
allowing vehicles to clear the tracks.

Head-end View:

you are correct, Schumer didn't say anything about PTC preventing this accident although he has made a point to bring up the topic after every rail accident occurs around the country along with other members of congress, but you have to wonder what his mind set was to conveniently inquire into the delays into PTC on MNR and the LIRR at the same time as this accident. I'm sure he didn't intend for it to sound as if the two coincided with each other but then again he has never been shy to take opportunities when they present themselves. In essence, I ranted that part more based on the repeated calls for PTC throughout the past several years as being the "cure for all" in the rail industry. But I would put money on it that it was on his mind that day. But you will never hear him mention that most accidents like this one could be avoided if grade crossing elimination projects would be made a greater priority than PTC when the LIRR speed control system has served the company well for decades.

Dutch:

The answer to your question is nobody. that's the problem with our society. there doesn't seem to be anyone or enough people out there who are willing to call B.S. out loud into the faces of these over zealous politicians. Nobody cares about facts anymore and are overly content to accept what we hear on tv or read in the paper as gospel. The "I don't cares" of this world don't seem to understand that PTC and all the other pretty gadgets cost money. And they certainly don't understand that the money will be coming from their own pockets, they being of course the tax payer. Wonder if "they" know who will be paying for this wreck at Westbury?

I could care less if Newsday even spent a centimeter on it's paper to compliment the M of W's work to restore service so quickly. The fact that they would spend considerable more space to glorify the people who caused this wreck is a slap on the face to anyone who works at the LIRR regardless of their position. I still am curious as to what exactly would cause someone to flee the scene of a fender bender and cause them to completely disregard the flashing lights and crossing gates at the railroad crossing and purposely place themselves in front of two moving trains. Maybe somebody at Newsday would care to do a report on that subject. Or perhaps have somebody sit in front seat of an LIRR train with an engineer and have them explain to them what are some of the things that may cross their minds as their train screams towards any of the many railroad crossings across Long Island. Thank God that both crews were able to walk away from this along with two train load of passengers. This could have been a far worse scenario.