welded boiler construction

i know that welded construction became accepted practice after about 1940 in stationary practice , so how far had welded construction penetrated locomotive boiler construction? so for example, on the day the last new steam engine rolled out of the works, did it have a welded boiler, ( I leave the year and identity of that engine as quiz questions), and what percentage of engines running that day had all welded boilers?

I can't answer the question, but here are some thoughts:
(1) U.S. and European practice may have been different: I have a memory (hazy, even by my standards) of reading somewhere that welded boilers were more widely used by Eurpoean than by American railways.
(2) Some welding could be used even in a boiler whose shell was riveted. I think that welded fireboxes were used on a fair number of U.S. steam locomotives (including, I think, some or all N&W Y6b 2-8-8-2).
(3) Alco did some research and development work on welded boilers. When they got out of the steam business (1948), Lima, evidently thinking it would go on building steam locomotives for longer than, in the event, they did, bought steam patents from Alco, including some on welded boiler technology. (Source for that? Something I read years ago...)
(4) A limited number of steam locomotives did get all-welded boilers from Alco. The first was a 2-8-0 for the Delaware & Hudson, others included the New York Central's Niagara 4-8-4 class and one or more of their Hudsons that were reboilered in the 1940s.
(5) I.C.C. regulations required that all-welded locomotive boilers be annealed after welding -- in a furnace big enough to contain the whole boiler. The N&W didn't have such a furnace at their Roanoak shops, so the last conventional steam locomotives built for U.S. railroads did NOT have welded boilers.

Thanks for the informations about boilers in the U.S.
I will add only a few things on boilers in Germany.
Welded boilers appear as standard first after WW2, so the large boiler exchange program by the german federal railways came, as the death of steam was unstoppable, to late to change something with new technology.
Usually problematic was the welding of the fitting parts at the outer edges of the firebox shell to the tubular boiler hull, the firedoor and some other mounting parts like the dome of the boiler with the throttle valve in it. After the overcome of several problems, new, completely welded boilers were developed and a replacement program between 1957 and 1965 was undertaken, so spend several high need series of steam engines a fully welded boiler. Steam locomotives build after 1952 usually were fitted with a welded boiler, but still small series of boilers, especially for industrial railways or industrial private shunting were found with riveted boilers.
During WW2 germany was short on copper, because this was need in military warfare purposes, so many boilers were refitted with a welded firebox from steel, so welding appeared step by step, leading to the build of very improved boilers by Henschel in hesse.
After 1952 the engineer at Henschel development department, Dr. Tross, found several specials on welding technology, like better welded stays and crown bolts and the development of high output boilers, like for the SAR Series 25 and 15 made Henschel locomotive works very famous.
Because of having till the end of steam in Germany a various mix of different, but standardized locomotive series, steam locomotives there was a co-existence of riveted old boilers, like on former prussian railways series locomotives or on non-boiler replacement program included series of heavy freight locomotives series 44, and fully welded boilers, like series 41 and 01.10
The locomotives were usually withdrawn from service and set out of service on heavy boiler failures, because most shops were still able to maintain a riveted boiler, but the work was time consuming and needed much more labour, than welded boilers - so this was the main argument to replace a locomotive with a new diesel or electric type, so it was often used, even in the boiler did not need any rivet maintenance of rivet replacement. On the other hand, on several riveted boilers one can find cut parts with newly welded in patches. Welding made boiler repairs more easy, so cutting a part of the boilers shell and welding in a new patch was a common practice in many shops. Usually shich patches were found on the firebox and firebox shell and the bottom of the main tubular boiler, were high corrosive parts of the boiler water accumulate and lead to long term material failures, which need material replacement.
Also Mannesmann tube works delivered many boiler smoke tubes, it was later in Germany common to weld the tube ends with prefabricated contract and prefabricated widened ends, which were welded on the tube ends. Prefabrication of those ends was more easy and better to handle, as working with the fully length tube in the tube works of the shops.

I think the Delaware and Hudson 2-8-0 thatt received the first all-welded boiler on an American steam locomotive may have been #1219: originally built in 1916, it was rebuilt with a welded boiler in 1937. So that gives a start date for welded boiler applications on U.S. railroads.
I think that in the period immediately after the Second World War ALCo tried to market welded boilers for use in rebuilding existing steam locomotives, but I don't know what success they had.

(sorry, please be patient - this 'freight train' may start slow )

A very interesting treatise on welded boilers, Juniatha - thank you!

One wonders in retrospect if ALCO might not have been better off, at least for the next decade, to retain that furnace. Considering that it entered into nuclear power first through supply of components, and then shortly thereafter became a reactor vendor ("prime contractor") that furnace might well have come in handy for annealing steam generators for the reactor plants it was building. Actually, the first ever annealing of a pressure vessel in-place took place on an ALCO plant (at Fort Greely, Alaska.) One wonders.

In hindsight though it certainly appears that the furnace was completed a bit late - not late for its intended purpose, but late for the steam locomotive as a whole, so that it only marginally contributed to history.

A great piece as always, Juniatha, and worth reading and RE-reading!


-Will Davis

Thank you, Will.
Build late - scrapped the sooner: shouldn't they have saved it?
Maybe .. however there was a general rush to get rid of anything steam in those years.
Well, that's the way of the world!

Merry Chrismas to all of you

= J =

From the website of the British new-build A1 pacific Tornado:

The principal change from the original design is the boiler. Tornado's boiler was designed as a fully welded vessel with a steel firebox as opposed to the original that was riveted and had a copper firebox. The reason is that, with the exception of a small cottage industry which supports the existing preservation movement, there is no capacity to produce a large riveted boiler in the modern pressure vessel industry.

This method of construction did not significantly increase the technical risk as extensive use was made of welded boilers and steel fireboxes in the USA and other overseas countries. Also the successful Bulleid Merchant Navy and West Country classes had fully welded inner and outer fireboxes made from steel.

http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option ... &Itemid=83

I believe the boiler was constructed in Germany.

Quote from the quote of the A1 webside text
>> This method of construction did not significantly increase the technical risk <<

In other words:
they would have made it a rivetted copper fireboxed boiler if they could?
And they indeed felt there is no significant increse in risk in venturing
to build it to common, proven 1950s technics instead of traditional 1920s?
My goodness - what can you say to that!?

= J =

I have been collecting articles from several trade publication concerning Alco's ventures into all-welded boiler construction. Locomotives and/or replacement boilers were built for the following:

New York Central -- 1
Canadian Pacific - 2
Chesapeake & Ohio - 5 new locomotives 2785 - 2789 and the 2789 exists at North Judson, Indiana today.
Chicago & Northwestern - 6 boilers for 4-6-4s to replace riveted boilers, also converted to oil
Milwaukee Road - 10
Delaware & Hudson - 1 boiler for 2-8-0 #1219

With only one exception, all were built in 1946 and 1946.
The heat treat furnace was a car-bottom type, it is pictured in Raiiway Age in a July 1946 article. The technical articles are largely found in welding trade publication of that same year, the D & H #1219 is written about extensively, the other articles are of a technical nature focused mainly on the welding engineering of that era. The assembly was via Submerged arc in the plat position, joints were tightly spaced and the boilers were rotated for cylindrical welds. They used temporary welded ties with cross-bolts to hold all boiler course together until the welds had been completed, then the ties were cut out. Two of the articles show the positioners used to rotate the boilers and also to grind the joints in preparation for welding. All welds were e-ray examined before heat-treatment. No specific details of the heat-treat process, but it looks to be fairly standard from my reading of the overall process.

If anyone wants copies of the articles, contact me off list: blwloc AT yahoo.com All are in .PDF format

blwloco

blwloco wrote:I have been collecting articles from several trade publication concerning Alco's ventures into all-welded boiler construction. .... If anyone wants copies of the articles, contact me off list: blwloc AT yahoo.com All are in .PDF format

blwloco

Hi blwloco

That might be interesting. The procedures seem much like those then used in Europe.
Just one boiler for NYC? I recall some notes on J-3a and Niagara boiler replacements ..?
I'd appreciate if you might want to sending me a pdf copy?

= J =