Weather and railroad operations

With the wierd weather we've been having in Wisconsin last week, and not seeing a full answer in the forums, I have a few questions about how weather affects railroading. For example:
1. A tornado (or straight line winds) blew a UP engine and several cars off the tracks near Harvard IL. Do crew members have weather radios (or is it even allowed) in the cabs, do the dispatchers relay current weather info, or do you just have to look out the window and see what blows by? And if you see a tornado, what would you do?
2. Dense fog caused a 100 car pile-up on the inerstate in Wisconsin (and a 50 car pile up in Florida) also. Visibility was near zero. For the railroads, are speed restictions issued in dense fog? Is the engineer allowed to decide on a safe speed or do you just go the speed limit. And would there be a difference in signaled teritory vice where there are no signals.
3. A thread talked about lightning hitting a cantery wire, but what if it hit a locomotive/ car?
4. With the heavy snow in CA/ NV earlier (8ish feet in Lake Tahoe) and knowing there is a BNSF/ UP line near there, did they pull out the rotaries to clear the line (do they still even exist) or how is large amounts of snow removed?

There are probably other interesting ways the weather affects ops, but these are the ones I thought of. Thanks for any info.

This subject was recently discussed on the Amtrak forum; hope this link proves helpful.

http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=46401

Nukengineer wrote:With the wierd weather we've been having in Wisconsin last week, and not seeing a full answer in the forums, I have a few questions about how weather affects railroading. For example:
1. A tornado (or straight line winds) blew a UP engine and several cars off the tracks near Harvard IL. Do crew members have weather radios (or is it even allowed) in the cabs, do the dispatchers relay current weather info, or do you just have to look out the window and see what blows by? And if you see a tornado, what would you do?

Rule books and TTSI's have the protocols for dealing with tornado watches and warnings. They very by road, but in most cases, you are instructed to stop the train, and seek shelter. If it isn't available, you head for a ditch, or in the worst case, hide in the nose of the loco. (no windows)

Nukengineer wrote:2. Dense fog caused a 100 car pile-up on the inerstate in Wisconsin (and a 50 car pile up in Florida) also. Visibility was near zero. For the railroads, are speed restictions issued in dense fog? Is the engineer allowed to decide on a safe speed or do you just go the speed limit. And would there be a difference in signaled teritory vice where there are no signals.

Fog isn't such a problem, when you don't have to steer. Cab signals help immensely, but again, this is covered in the Rule books, and TTSI's, and this varies by road. If you can see the signals, and the wayside markers (mileposts, whistleboards, speed restrictions, etc) and you can do it safely, running with the bell ringing continuously, and blowing for every crossing, might work for you. Here's a fifty MPH shot, of fog running, from a few weeks ago.

Nukengineer wrote:3. A thread talked about lightning hitting a cantery wire, but what if it hit a locomotive/ car?

As long as your not standing on the ground, holding the loco, or are very close to it, the current should pass through the steel, directly to ground, in this case, the rails. Equipment does get hit, from time to time, but I'm unaware of any fatalities resulting from a direct strike, to standing or moving equipment, with a crew inside.

Nukengineer wrote:4. With the heavy snow in CA/ NV earlier (8ish feet in Lake Tahoe) and knowing there is a BNSF/ UP line near there, did they pull out the rotaries to clear the line (do they still even exist) or how is large amounts of snow removed?

Not sure what took place on this exact line, but railroads still use rotary plows, wedge plows and spreaders, to remove snow. By tackling the problem before there is eight feet of snow on the ground (by making passes through the snow, removing it as it accumulates) you can sometimes keep ahead of the snow. This is more problematic in an area subject to drifts. Areas subject to regular drifting are sometimes protected by snow fences, or in extreme cases, snow sheds. (think a long, man made tunnel to run through) Snow is blown out of the way, or simply "shoved" to either side, with a plow.

Nukengineer wrote:There are probably other interesting ways the weather affects ops, but these are the ones I thought of. Thanks for any info.

Yes, there are other cool things, like mudslides, flashfloods, wildfires, straight line winds, sand/dust storms, ice storms, that all have their own unique set of solutions, for dealing with, when running. Hope this helps, a bit. Regards...

This is the worst time of the year to be railroading as far as operations are concerned. Out west where I live we have probably 2 feet of snow on the ground. Snow and ice builds up on brake shoes, so everything is hard to stop. As an engineer you have to plan ahead to heat up your brakes in time for a stop. Lining switches are the worst. Railroads have brooms with ice pick on the end of them so you can dig them out. Its a lot of work. As far as fog speaking for myself I go track speed, with lots of whistle for crossings and extra precaution when running on a signal other than clear. It makes it easier to fall while switching too. Poor walking surfaces and wet or icy grab irons and ladders on cars. We have been deadheading via train (riding on another crews train) since the highways have been bad for the last month. Our local put a car on the ground yesterday shoving a car over an iced over crossing. I am kinda ready for spring...

Thanks for the answers. I knew operations had to be affected in one way or another. I should have guessed there would be a rule book covering everything weather related. (Submarines had procedures for everything - including fog and suprisingly its close to what railroads do - sound your whistle often and look out for the other vessels).
I'll also assume that even springtime (in northern areas) has its own issues of frost heaving playing havoc on the rails

do engineers get dizzy when going thru snow storms? Yesterday while making a dinner pickup i was headed back to our police hq and the snow wasn't falling hard when stopped but as soon as you drive it kinda made me dizzy staring straight ahead. Does something like this affect an engineer?

That sounds like a personal problem, like getting carsick. Some conductors smell bad enough to make me dizzy. Wet brakemen smell pretty bad too . Seriously though the funnest thing about snow is bucking drifts at track speed.

Snow drifts maybe but the snow piled up by road plows at railroad grade
crossings was not funny, we never knew just what might be in that stuff
when we hit it. Lots more than just plowed snow.
Noel Weaver

Noel Weaver wrote:Snow drifts maybe but the snow piled up by road plows at railroad grade
crossings was not funny, we never knew just what might be in that stuff
when we hit it. Lots more than just plowed snow.
Noel Weaver

Yeah that stuff is usually frozen and launches through the air. I cringe when I hit that kind of snow because it can hit motorists and pedestrians.

The snow gets tiring after a few hours, especially at speed. You can compare it to Star Wars or Star Trek warp drive. The bright lights don't help either.

Severe winter cold, such as 0 and below has a very adverse effect on railroad operations. Worked up in the Powder River Basin coal fields on the BN Orin Line in Wyoming for 14.5 years. Saw -25f about every winter, -30f several winters and -35f two winters. Very difficult to keep the train line pumped up on 7000' coal trains in those temperatures. The automatic train air brakes, when applied, take much longer to set up and release. Steel becomes very brittle and knuckles and drawbars are more prone to breakage. Rails break often when pounded by flat spots on locomotive or car wheels. BN, and later BNSF, restricted train speeds when the temperature dipped below certain levels. Everything simply slowed down, even the coal mine operations.

How well does an engineer "know" the routes?

For the first time on my adult life I've lived in the same place for seven years. I can "draw" mental snapshots of I-84 from Waterbury to the Mass Pike. Most automobile driving is reactive; (some people more so than others...) but I can drive a car to somewhere new and respond to road conditions.

I presume an engineer can think/"see" ahead to where curves and crossings are; is that the case?

Lincoln78 wrote:How well does an engineer "know" the routes?

For the first time on my adult life I've lived in the same place for seven years. I can "draw" mental snapshots of I-84 from Waterbury to the Mass Pike. Most automobile driving is reactive; (some people more so than others...) but I can drive a car to somewhere new and respond to road conditions.

I presume an engineer can think/"see" ahead to where curves and crossings are; is that the case?

It generally is especially if the engineer has been running the line for a
while.
Noel Weaver

For sure. I can close my eyes and still run the Orin Line Donkey Creek Jct.-Bridger Jct., 127.3 miles, even through I have not done so since 2000.

Some railroad Detecters give weather reports along with out side tempature, and wind speed along with the normal defect readout and so forth. The only two railroads that I know of that have these features are Ontario Northland and the Alaska Railroad.