RAILROAD.NET

With the proposal to develop the air rights over the station tracks for the planned Burnham center, how much revenue from this would Amtrak receive on an ongoing basis?

I found some of the reporting on funding for this project interesting. Amtrak seems to be moving forward on multiple fronts under Anderson (Philadelphia, Chicago, New York) to get major station improvements implemented. If they're able to follow through I will be very impressed.

Amtrak doesn't get any revenue from the over build. The general services administration sold the air rights in 2006. Amtrak was not involved. (much to their chagrin).

Big plans afoot to rebuild Washington Union Station but it seems the Feds want to rebuild that fugly parking structure and the City says it is a waste:

"The District says the federal plan is too car-centric, lacks good pedestrian and bike connections and fails to provide adequate circulation and access, which would lead to gridlock on city streets. Chief among the concerns is the FRA’s preference for keeping a multilevel parking garage in the station complex, despite evidence that passengers and most station visitors don’t get there by personal vehicle."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html

StLouSteve wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:38 am Big plans afoot to rebuild Washington Union Station but it seems the Feds want to rebuild that fugly parking structure and the City says it is a waste:

"The District says the federal plan is too car-centric, lacks good pedestrian and bike connections and fails to provide adequate circulation and access, which would lead to gridlock on city streets. Chief among the concerns is the FRA’s preference for keeping a multilevel parking garage in the station complex, despite evidence that passengers and most station visitors don’t get there by personal vehicle."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html

This proves how the federal government is more car-centered ever since the Interstate Highway Act in 1954, and is trying to form a lifestyle centered on the automobile, in this case with the construction of a parking garage, suggesting that a car is needed for all traveling, even between major cities which have efficient rail service.

StLouSteve wrote:Big plans afoot to rebuild Washington Union Station but it seems the Feds want to rebuild that fugly parking structure and the City says it is a waste:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html

Not surprising, given the national vs local tension in government around here. I think the Union Station parking deck serves many nearby agencies and businesses as well, it’s fairly inexpensive for the area. That said, it doesn’t need to be that large - 2/3 or 1/2 the size would be appropriate - nor that ugly. That’s particularly true if the relevant stakeholders could dedicate more space to the regional bus terminal, future Metro expansion, and more through tracks.

Also the stakeholders need to increase Metro and commuter rail service, directly to Virginia in particular, if the District wants to cut auto traffic more.

Pensyfan19 wrote:This proves how the federal government is more car-centered ever since the Interstate Highway Act in 1954, and is trying to form a lifestyle centered on the automobile, in this case with the construction of a parking garage, suggesting that a car is needed for all traveling, even between major cities which have efficient rail service.

Yep. USDOT held onto the I-95 concept segment through northeast DC far longer than locals wanted. (While the northern leg would be quite useful for me, it would probably wreak havoc on the city and I respect that their needs outweigh mine there. Also it gives me an excuse to ride MARC .)

That kind of Federal overruling of local sentiment is one of the driving factors in the Douglass Commonwealth statehood movement. Depending on the next Congress and President, that movement actually stands a reasonable chance of success in the next few years. DC already elects “shadow senators” and a “shadow representative” who are ready to drop everything and take seats in Congress; it already sends a delegate to Congress though Rep. Norton isn’t provided a floor vote.

Huh. I'd think that keeping a parking garage would indicate that they wanted people to use their cars only for the last mile. If as you suggest cars are preferred, why have the garage at all if the push is to have people skip the train?

eolesen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:20 pm Huh. I'd think that keeping a parking garage would indicate that they wanted people to use their cars only for the last mile. If as you suggest cars are preferred, why have the garage at all if the push is to have people skip the train?

I feel it could be a subliminal message of "yes, you can use the train to go from one city to another, but you still need a car to go from the station to point X a few miles out", while public transportation to Point X is easily available, via light rail, bus, subway, taxi or uber in some cases. I went down to DC a few years ago and took the Orange Line and local taxi to the Fairfax Railroad Museum, an area which is not served by public transportation, and I still managed to do the entire trip without renting a car or using my own.

eolesen wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:20 pmHuh. I'd think that keeping a parking garage would indicate that they wanted people to use their cars only for the last mile. If as you suggest cars are preferred, why have the garage at all if the push is to have people skip the train?

I don’t think anyone wants everyone to skip every train. Yes, USDOT is historically pretty road-oriented given that their founding purpose was to help break the railroad monopolies with auto, truck, and air travel, but they’ve since had to realize rail is an integral part of American passenger and freight transportation and they can’t keep dumping on it. Even Uber, Lyft, and Megabus get plenty of people transferring to or from different trip legs by train.

Plus I’m pretty sure Union Station makes a net profit from its parking structure, often from people visiting DC who never step foot on a train.

Pensyfan19 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:24 pmI feel it could be a subliminal message of "yes, you can use the train to go from one city to another, but you still need a car to go from the station to point X a few miles out", while public transportation to Point X is easily available, via light rail, bus, subway, taxi or uber in some cases. I went down to DC a few years ago and took the Orange Line and local taxi to the Fairfax Railroad Museum, an area which is not served by public transportation, and I still managed to do the entire trip without renting a car or using my own.

That is dedication. It’s too bad VRE doesn’t run an all-stops outbound morning train - Manassas VRE is even further from Fairfax Station than Vienna Metro, but Burke Centre VRE is almost walkable for a determined young person (about 50 minutes at normal walking pace.)

I hated having to drive to get to Union Station, but when I lived 55 miles away in Spotsylvania and needed to take a family member to the weekend northbound Vermonter, I had to drive.

The Union Station parking garage is a joke. None of the people who actually utilize the station use it, rather wealthy employees of surrounding buildings who could just as easily use one of the many Metro lines in the area or the actual, ya know, train station, and visitors of the city who are driving many miles into the heart of the city, clogging up roads unnecessarily. I think it's ridiculous 1400 spaces out of the current 2200 are monthly passholders. The garage covers up extremely valuable and usable land in the heart of a bustling city, not a place for a parking garage.

Do we even need a garage in the first place?

electricron wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 10:43 pm Excellent question which you already answered, but did not realize you did. 1400 parking spaces are already being used out of 2200 by monthly passholders. It is already being used. Of course it is needed. If there were zero monthly passholders, then you might ask that question with a straight face.

The question here is "Why do we have a garage for the station when it's not being used for parking in line to using the station?"

The answer is the same answer to "Why do we even have vendors in Union Station? It looks like a glorified mall." And that answer is "money to keep the place clean and going."

And you want to kill a cash cow for what?

This is a case where we can't keep ourselves focused on just trains. Yes, folks will be driving in. DC is a hopping place! Everyone isn't just taking crowded MARC, VRE, and Metrorail. That's spilling over to MTA Commuter Bus, WMATA Bus, and... the roads themselves. We will have folks driving in no matter what we do to expand capacity, for whatever reason.

So? Charge 'em for the privilege. If they can afford to drive in, if they can afford the parking pass, charge for the access.

daybeers wrote: ↑Sun Nov 01, 2020 9:52 pm The Union Station parking garage is a joke. None of the people who actually utilize the station use it, rather wealthy employees of surrounding buildings who could just as easily use one of the many Metro lines in the area or the actual, ya know, train station, and visitors of the city who are driving many miles into the heart of the city, clogging up roads unnecessarily. I think it's ridiculous 1400 spaces out of the current 2200 are monthly passholders. The garage covers up extremely valuable and usable land in the heart of a bustling city, not a place for a parking garage.

Do we even need a garage in the first place?

This is about right. Most who park there are not hopping a train. Redevelopment should aim for fewer (but not zero) spaces. And, dear God, is that structure ever a eyesore next to the station.

Washington Post reports that pressure is building to do away or reduce the parking garage in the redeveloped station:

"Pressure mounts on federal agency over Union Station redevelopment. Critics say plan is too focused on cars."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/tr ... story.html

removing the parking garage would give the whole station design much more flexibility.