Terry Kennedy wrote:
Ken S. wrote:1. Was there a plan to send the H&M to the LIRR's Flatbush Avenue Station? I'm planning to include this provision as a another station at the WTC Complex.
Nothing that even made it to a preliminary design phase.*
I found a map on Wikipedia that looked like it showed H&M to Brooklyn.
2. Is this car facility in Hoboken still in operation? I have two tracks that branch off at Hoboken and may be curving to the north as a separate project or kept they way they are to represent this facility.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here. The only thing that was actually built was a single car lift that took cars from Track 3 in Hoboken to street level. I don't know offhand what sort of H&M yard trackage (if any) was at street level there.[/quote]
That's what I'm thinking of. So it's not really worth including, I'll let NJT deal with that what is now a Tunnel to Nowhere then.
3. Was the East Side Line ment to operate over the Lexington Avenue IRT tracks and into a new station at GCT?
Is this an H&M question? The only parts that got to the design phase was up 6th Ave and then over to GCT, and a spur from 9th St. to Astor Place.[/quote]
So were the East Side trains supposed to terminate at Astor Place? The leads from the 33rd Street Line are already in place, I was just wondering what to do with them and sending it to GCT via the IRT seems like the best idea.
4. I understand that the H&M was planned to serve the CNJ Terminal. Would this service if built be ran today as CNJ-33rd, CNJ-HOB, or CNJ-GCT assuming that got built?
Unknown. The provisions for tracks that would have gone to CNJ are at the west end of Grove St. Westbound you can see a signal shed, eastbound has a boarded up wall.
If you're going to build the hypothetical extensions, there's a 3rd routing where trains from 33rd diverge left to Pavonia or right to Hoboken - after diverging left, there is a spot where they would have then gone straight (instead of curving south) which would take you out into the Meadowlands. And of course, there's the Hudson Terminal to Pavonia (Erie) which had the most actual construction of any of these 3 (a few hundred yards parallel to Tunnel F, a hundred feet or so under E, and the full crossover north of Pavonia).[/quote]
That junction is already done as is the one between Newport, Grove, and Exchange Place which contains the CNJ leads coming from Hoboken/33rd/East Side.
5. I'm planning 3 stops south of Newark at South Street, where Broad Street merges with Route 21 and the third unless I come up with something better is planned for the Airport somewhere.
You could include the Henderson Yard (at Grove St.) which was an amazing piece of design - a full yard including shops and a ramp down to the Grove St. station, all in one square block.
* Railroads were required to file a notarized set of plans with the state for any routes they were considering. This included a cash deposit which was generally refundable if the route was not built. I have what I believe is the complete set of originals of these.
Here is a map of many of the never-built sections: 1.5MB JPEG
You can spot traces of some of these if you look carefully - if you look at the bottom-most red line on that image, you'll see that it would have extended the north/south part of the route southward past the current Grove/Exchange routes. Next time you're going toward Exchange Place from Grove St, take a look and you'll see a very brief piece of the tunnel that's in iron rings instead of the normal concrete. That's where the un-built route crosses the existing tunnel.[/quote]
I've already built the trackwork in that area and it was hard as I had to fit the Newark-WTC Line in there which now has a very steep climb/drop near Exchange Place since I had to fit the crossover in there.
Does that yard still exist?