Canal Slip in Hoboken

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nightmare403
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Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by nightmare403 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:27 pm

The canal in hoboken between the yard and hudson bergen light rail is finally being filled with a plan of 6 new tracks and 3 ADA platforms

https://www.njtransit.com/tm/tm_servlet ... SE_ID=3307" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Yankees1
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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by Yankees1 » Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:40 pm

Interesting that they continue to invest in Hoboken even with the possibility that very few trains will terminate there once they finally build Gateway. It's definitely still worth it with all of the people who work downtown and in the west/east village.

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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by EuroStar » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:08 am

NJT will invest in Hoboken. They have no choice. Trains will terminate in Hoboken for decades to come and in all likelihood their number will increase somewhat. In spite of all the talk about Gateway, the only thing from Gateway that has reasonable shot of being completed in the next 5 years is the new Portal Bridge. For the two new tunnels you are looking at 10 years plus until opening. For Penn South it is basically never. Without Penn South no new trains will go to Penn during rush hour. While you might have been hearing that the tunnels are the choke point, there is not extra space in the existing Penn Station for new trains either.

I am quite disappointed that they separated the project into two phases. That will add at least an year, but in all likelihood two plus years to the whole project. They are receiving bids on extending the Jersey City sewer and filling the canal until July. One can only hope that the selection will be finished by October. Then it is an extra month for the board to vote on awarding the contract. More paperworks follows (permits, etc.), so by the time the equipment is on site it will be the first quarter of 2020. An year in construction follows. Once it is done they will start the process for the second phase: the elevated platforms, the new bridges over the streets and such. Expect another 3-4 years, so maybe in 2025 Hoboken will gain an additional tracks.

If I have to guess the separation in phases is because NJT does not have the money for the full project. The FTA money is probably enough to only fill the canal, not to build the tracks and the rest of the infrastructure. Completion of phase 1 will be a win though not only for NJT as it will reduce the chance of future flooding of the yard, but also for Hoboken as substantial amount of the flooding in the city came through the canal.

njt/mnrrbuff
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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by njt/mnrrbuff » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:42 am

Contingency planning is key! It’s very good that NJT is going to build more tracks, new platforms(high level), and any other augmentations at Hoboken Terminal. At this point, expanding at Hoboken Terminal is the answer. All of Gateway won’t be completed in a few years, especially the tunnels.

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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by R36 Combine Coach » Fri Jun 07, 2019 9:14 pm

njt/mnrrbuff wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:42 am
Contingency planning is key! It’s very good that NJT is going to build more tracks, new platforms(high level), and any other augmentations at Hoboken Terminal. At this point, expanding at Hoboken Terminal is the answer. All of Gateway won’t be completed in a few years, especially the tunnels.
If the tunnels are closed, where does Midtown Direct service go: HOB.
Since my friend continues to chain smoke nonstop, she is probably an Alco.

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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by mtuandrew » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:03 pm

You could always dig tubes from Hoboken to the City... :wink:

Defiant
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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by Defiant » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:07 am

EuroStar wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:08 am

I am quite disappointed that they separated the project into two phases. That will add at least an year, but in all likelihood two plus years to the whole project. They are receiving bids on extending the Jersey City sewer and filling the canal until July. One can only hope that the selection will be finished by October. Then it is an extra month for the board to vote on awarding the contract. More paperworks follows (permits, etc.), so by the time the equipment is on site it will be the first quarter of 2020. An year in construction follows. Once it is done they will start the process for the second phase: the elevated platforms, the new bridges over the streets and such. Expect another 3-4 years, so maybe in 2025 Hoboken will gain an additional tracks.
If this is true, then it would take more than ten years to address the major impact of a hurricane. I think Soviet Russia build infrastructure faster than this. How pathetic...

And what would happen if there is another major hurricane during the construction? Will NJ ask for federal assistance again for the same problem...

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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by lensovet » Sat Jun 15, 2019 7:52 pm

Defiant wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:07 am
EuroStar wrote:
Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:08 am

I am quite disappointed that they separated the project into two phases. That will add at least an year, but in all likelihood two plus years to the whole project. They are receiving bids on extending the Jersey City sewer and filling the canal until July. One can only hope that the selection will be finished by October. Then it is an extra month for the board to vote on awarding the contract. More paperworks follows (permits, etc.), so by the time the equipment is on site it will be the first quarter of 2020. An year in construction follows. Once it is done they will start the process for the second phase: the elevated platforms, the new bridges over the streets and such. Expect another 3-4 years, so maybe in 2025 Hoboken will gain an additional tracks.
If this is true, then it would take more than ten years to address the major impact of a hurricane. I think Soviet Russia build infrastructure faster than this. How pathetic...

And what would happen if there is another major hurricane during the construction? Will NJ ask for federal assistance again for the same problem...
Soviet Russia also had no problem sending people to their deaths to build infrastructure to stoke the ego of its leaders, so I'm not sure we should be exactly looking to them for inspiration…
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WashingtonPark
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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by WashingtonPark » Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:43 pm

I think his point is that our progress on infrastructure is pathetic, not that we should lift up the Soviet Union as our shining example.

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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by andegold » Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:25 am

Defiant wrote:
Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:07 am


If this is true, then it would take more than ten years to address the major impact of a hurricane. I think Soviet Russia build infrastructure faster than this. How pathetic...

And what would happen if there is another major hurricane during the construction? Will NJ ask for federal assistance again for the same problem...
You mean the way various areas of the Southeast and Southwest continuously ask for Federal funds to rebuild, in flood prone areas instead of relocating or in storm prone areas without modernizing their building standards time after time after every storm?

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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by lensovet » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:25 pm

WashingtonPark wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:43 pm
I think his point is that our progress on infrastructure is pathetic, not that we should lift up the Soviet Union as our shining example.
and my point is that there are reasons for that and people need to be aware of what those reasons are before they start blaming their favorite bogeyman.
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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by WashingtonPark » Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:42 pm

lensovet wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:25 pm
WashingtonPark wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:43 pm
I think his point is that our progress on infrastructure is pathetic, not that we should lift up the Soviet Union as our shining example.
and my point is that there are reasons for that and people need to be aware of what those reasons are before they start blaming their favorite bogeyman.
So smarten us all up and make us aware of the reason we have lightening fast awarding of studies and horribly slow progress on actual infrastructure since you state you're in agreement with us that progress on infrastructure is pathetic. Also, just out of curiosity, what bogeyman is he blaming? And why is a guy from California the mod for NJT rail?

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lensovet
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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by lensovet » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:02 pm

WashingtonPark wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:42 pm
lensovet wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:25 pm
WashingtonPark wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:43 pm
I think his point is that our progress on infrastructure is pathetic, not that we should lift up the Soviet Union as our shining example.
and my point is that there are reasons for that and people need to be aware of what those reasons are before they start blaming their favorite bogeyman.
So smarten us all up and make us aware of the reason we have lightening fast awarding of studies and horribly slow progress on actual infrastructure since you state you're in agreement with us that progress on infrastructure is pathetic. Also, just out of curiosity, what bogeyman is he blaming? And why is a guy from California the mod for NJT rail?
didn't take long for us to descend into personal attacks did it.

i'm the mod for the california forum, not that it matters.
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WashingtonPark
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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by WashingtonPark » Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:19 pm

lensovet wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 3:02 pm
WashingtonPark wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:42 pm
lensovet wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 2:25 pm
WashingtonPark wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 8:43 pm
I think his point is that our progress on infrastructure is pathetic, not that we should lift up the Soviet Union as our shining example.
and my point is that there are reasons for that and people need to be aware of what those reasons are before they start blaming their favorite bogeyman.
So smarten us all up and make us aware of the reason we have lightening fast awarding of studies and horribly slow progress on actual infrastructure since you state you're in agreement with us that progress on infrastructure is pathetic. Also, just out of curiosity, what bogeyman is he blaming? And why is a guy from California the mod for NJT rail?
didn't take long for us to descend into personal attacks did it.

i'm the mod for the california forum, not that it matters.
My error. I thought NJT Rail—California commuter (mod) meant you were the mod for both. You accused a writer of blaming a bogeyman because he said the infrastructure progress in NJ was pathetic. You said people need to be aware of the reasons and I asked you what they were and who the bogeyman was. As a 23 year veteran employee in New Jersey transportation I don't have the answer as to why infrastructure progress needs to be so pathetic. I don't get why you'd consider that a personal attack, but if you'd prefer not to explain the comment you made, which oddly enough seemed to be an attack on that individual, OK.

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Re: Canal Slip in Hoboken

Post by lensovet » Sun Jun 23, 2019 4:07 pm

ok here are a few basic things that come to mind…
  • studies are not done for the sake of being done, but due to legal precedent set. there are environmental regulations that require the studies and that require the collection of public comment and addressing of said comments. it is also more prudent to preemptively gather community input on projects rather than blindly pushing forward and then getting hit with lawsuits later. even in spite of all this prep, projects constantly get hit with lawsuits regarding property acquisition, mitigation measures, etc. hell, even this particular project was tied up in litigation before it even started. in China and Soviet Russia, neither of these things existed. As an example, the Three Gorges Dam required the relocation of 1.3 million residents and flooded an area of 419 square miles. You think a project of this scale could be done anywhere in the US? I think the answer is an emphatic no.
  • construction times are long due to worker safety and union rules. personally, i do not think that the solution is to eliminate unions, but again, this is simply something that needs to be acknowledged. again, Soviet Russia and China do not care about such technicalities. if a person dies on a worksite in the US, you can imagine what will happen to the project. in those countries, no one even notices. these things invariably make projects take longer to construct (you can't, for example, be doing construction 24/7) and more expensive to build (consider insurance costs, workers comp, etc). throw in Buy America requirements and you've got even higher costs and delays if the manufacturing capacity simply doesn't exist in this country.
i'm sure there are more that you can think of. and not that it matters, but I grew up in NJ, and hope to return there one day too.
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