Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by flexliner
Do you really think a rider from Atlantic to wall st four stops will move to penn also four stops but probably longer?
  by Backshophoss
You have subway options at Flatbush ave(Atlantic Term) then at Jamaica,this platform access via a bridge is a mistake
What's LIRR's thinking ,diviorce the Atlantic Branch to NYCTA?
  by Kelly&Kelly
The proposal of giving Jamaica to FBA to the NYCTA has surfaced from time to time and is very much alive. We have to see where it goes politically. My bet is that it goes nowhere, but I don't know much these days.

There's also been lots of talk of creating an agency to operate East Side Access and its trains. Again, a political decision that will depend on how much money the state would like to save and how much it wants to attack the operating unions. Again, my bet is that nothing comes of this except perhaps a new agency to operate Grand Central Terminal building.
  by krispy
Another thing that is a factor in their decisions is a constant push to remove the "Jamaica crawl". This effort is not so much to punish the Brooklyn customers, but an effort to remove the switches involved. If you have lots of switches, you can't have "code" permitting faster movement. Especially now with this PTC behemoth dumped on the railroad. This is something they've been banging their heads against for a long, long time. Management going to Signal and asking how do we pump up the MAS? The answer is simple, reduce the amount of turn-outs, etc. But to do that then you have to take away your ability to make complex moves, primarily across Hall as mentioned by K&K. Another thing to reduce the crawl is to eliminate connections. Often the RR must hold a connection so the Brooklyn trains can match up with their connections. Move the Brooklyn operation out of the main flow of traffic, eliminate the connections, and just pump the other trains through, drop and go. Less delays, higher OTP, and LESS CRAWL.

Does it work for everyone? Probably not, but they're aiming at what's been a goal for decades, faster rides for the majority trying to get into Manhattan.
  by Head-end View
I could see how the Jamaica to Brooklyn operation might be spun off to the NYCTA. But I really can't envision how the ESA Service could be run by a separate agency than LIRR. And the reason is that only the section of any trip from ESA to/from Harold is on the new branch of the Railroad. The rest of the trip is on the LIRR as it exists now. So you need LIRR operating crews or if you had a separate agency their personnel would have to still be qualified on most LIRR territory. Doesn't sound very feasible to me.
  by njtmnrrbuff
I agree that the passengers who are coming from Brooklyn who are making LIRR connections at Jamaica to head points east will be facing an inconvenience by having to go upstairs from those platforms dedicated for the Atlantic Terminal-Jamaica Shuttles. Sadly, going forward, that's how it will go, given that in a few years, Eastside Access will be open resulting in many LIRR trains that presently run to Atlantic Terminal will probably run to Grand Central Terminal. While many people travel to Brooklyn, at the end of the day, most of the people are traveling to Manhattan. Just remember that for those people who are heading to the LIRR stations in Brooklyn from Jamaica-combined with going upstairs walking across several tracks on a bridge and then having to go downstairs again, the trip on the LIRR will be faster than taking the subway from Jamaica to Atlantic Ave Terminal. I don't think there are many direct subways from that station to Jamaica LIRR. Probably the fastest way from Downtown Brooklyn to Jamaica LIRR Station on the subway would be to take the A train from Hoyt Schermerhorn to Broadway Jct, and then switch for the Z train to Sutphin Blvd-Archer Ave. There are probably people who work in Lower Manhattan who find it easier to use Atlantic Terminal. However, when Eastside Access opens up, they might as well just take a quick subway ride on the 4 and 5 train so that way, they will be at Grand Central Terminal in about 10 minutes.

The Atlantic Branch will be the line that will undergo significant change with the
opening of ESA.

Will it be a shuttle operated by the LIRR or a new New York City Transit route?
(letter to be determined...)

When East Side Access to GCT opens the schedule changes that will be implemented
are going to be the most extensive since the creation of zone fares in 1972 and the
completion of the Hicksville-Ronkonkoma Electrification in January 1988.

With the Floral Park-Hicksville Third Track Project construction on time and in budget offering more service and commute options for riders traveling over the Main Line each
day additional service will be added to Penn Station and GCT - and quite likely with a
downgrade of service to Atlantic Terminal.

Buff: The alternate Subway service between Jamaica Station and Atlantic Terminal
is the J train (Z is a peak hour limited stop service) to Broadway Junction Station
in East New York (adjacent to the LIRR East New York Station) changing to the A
train west towards Downtown Brooklyn.

The Subway route takes not only significantly longer - it requires the change of
trains at Broadway Junction-East New York in one of Brooklyn's toughest areas.
There are times that one needs to be careful there - especially at night.

The LIRR Atlantic Branch is by far the fastest route between Jamaica and eastern
Queens (as far east as Queens Village and Rosedale) and offers special incentive
fares to Atlantic Terminal: The Atlantic Ticket on weekdays ($5 one way fare) and
the City Ticket on Saturday and Sunday ($4.50) are prepaid money savers.

The upcoming changes to Atlantic Terminal Service for LIRR riders may not be
good - such as losing through service from east of Jamaica - but still remain to
be seen. The interim Platform F service may be an indication of what is yet to
come with the opening of ESA...MACTRAXX
Last edited by MACTRAXX on Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
  by njtmnrrbuff
The neighborhood around Broadway Jct Station is rough, even during the daytime. You must be extra careful at the station.

That’s true that even after Eastside Access opens up, there will still be additional trains to NYC Penn Station. Plenty of people will still need to access the Westside with more LIRR options.

It’s good that there will still be direct peak rail options from Nassau County to Brooklyn. I’m sure that there may be special direct trains running from Nassau County to Atlantic Terminal to accommodate those passengers heading to events at the Barclays.

I heard in the past that the MTA has looked into converting the LIRR Atlantic Branch into a NYCMTA Line. That is something to consider. The right of way has a feel of an enhanced subway line. The viaduct that carries the tracks past Nostrand Ave looks like a subway elevated structure. Hopefully when the new service patterns take place, the trains on the Atlantic Branch will run as frequent as possible.
  by NIMBYkiller
Does anyone have any map of the track layout for once the work at Jamaica is complete? I have one from a while back (might have been posted in another thread?) but I don't know if it's still the plan, but it turns things on their head, not just for Brooklyn. Montauk/Babylon tracks would have a direct path to 4 & 5 without fouling anything, leaving track 2 more space for trains coming in from the main line. If they were looking to increase throughput at Jamaica by eliminating/reducing crossovers and merges, 4 & 5 best line up with Atlantic without any fouling or merging. So I don't buy this whole notion of scootifying Atlantic to speed things up at Jamaica unless the track plan has changed from what I was previously given.

What about capacity match between west of Jamaica and east of Jamaica? Once all the projects are completed (Jamaica re-config, main line 3rd track, Ronkonkoma 2nd track) wouldn't they be shooting themselves in the foot by scootiying Atlantic, essentially undoing the west end capacity gained by ESA, meaning the capacity gains east of Jamaica won't be nearly as effective?