• Lackawanna Cutoff Passenger Service Restoration

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, nick11a, Kaback9, ACeInTheHole

  • 5534 posts
  • 1
  • 365
  • 366
  • 367
  • 368
  • 369
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Mr. Decell, this tunnel is between Port Morris end of track and Andover?

Somewhere in this "epic" I unwittingly started, it's answered, but please spare me the misery if you can.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Then, for that reason and the many others noted throughout this "Epic", consider the project dead.
  by joeycannoli
 
As I said before, daylight the damn tunnel already, historic preservation be damned. If the rehabilitation is that much of an issue to the point where it’s not feasible to fix I’d rather it be removed then to shelve the project altogether. It’s not like it’s easily accessible or even “legal” to visit the tunnel anyway. Get rid of it. We have pictures.
  by JoeG
 
Wikipedia has a good discussion. `https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roseville_Tunnel. The tunnel was built in unstable rock. It is 140 ft deep and would have been the deepest cut on the Cutoff. The engineers in 1908 thought the rock was too unstable to support such a deep cut.

I assume the tunnel could be daylighted using modern methods but doing that would greatly increase the cost of the job.

Is it worth it? I think it might be in the context of restoring a route to Pennsylvania, but the ridership from Andover alone wouldn't justify it.
  by joeycannoli
 
Would it drastically increase the cost? I am genuinely interested to know. I was thinking it would be cheaper by just blasting a new cut in, but I’m not an expert. Surely the technology as was mentioned above is far better then a century ago
  by Ken W2KB
 
joeycannoli wrote: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:24 pm As I said before, daylight the damn tunnel already, historic preservation be damned. If the rehabilitation is that much of an issue to the point where it’s not feasible to fix I’d rather it be removed then to shelve the project altogether. It’s not like it’s easily accessible or even “legal” to visit the tunnel anyway. Get rid of it. We have pictures.
It is my understanding that historical preservation is not the issue. The issue is identical to the original reason a tunnel was constructed rather than a deep cut. The Lackawanna RR originally intended to construct a cut, over 1,000 feet long and about 150 feet deep, but engineering analysis of the subsurface conditions revealed that the materials were highly unstable and an extremely wide cut would be required to allow for very gradual wall slopes to prevent landslides. The cost of a cut for that reason was substantially in excess of a tunnel, so the latter option was selected. The cost differential factor remains in the present project.
  by Gilbert B Norman
 
There may be a long shot for a return to suburbia - including Sussex County:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-another ... lewebshare

Fair Use:
..The twin crises of Covid-19 and the recent civil unrest represent a turning point for urban life in America. They could herald an age of disorder and disinvestment for the American metropolis, or a civic revival that lifts the fortunes of city-dwellers of every color, class and creed.

As recently as February, it was hard to imagine that the workers, investors and entrepreneurs who have flocked to America’s cities in recent years would flee en masse, not least because most cities had become so safe. Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the crack epidemic was raging in neighborhoods around the country. Hundreds of thousands of lives have been spared as a result of this extraordinary crime decline. Communities that saw steep declines in violence also saw increases in academic achievement, according to a 2014 study in the journal Sociological Science by Patrick Sharkey and colleagues..
I think this whole situation as outlined in this Opinion piece need be evaluated when COVID is behind us. So much of the crime and civil unrest which are the "enginators" of this movement can be laid to the pandemic. The "powers that be" both in Trenton and Washington need be cautious before committing funds to a project for which its need has greatly diminished since it was first proposed twenty years ago.
  by amtrakowitz
 
Gilbert B Norman wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:50 pm There may be a long shot for a return to suburbia - including Sussex County:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-another ... lewebshare

Fair Use:
..The twin crises of Covid-19 and the recent civil unrest represent a turning point for urban life in America. They could herald an age of disorder and disinvestment for the American metropolis, or a civic revival that lifts the fortunes of city-dwellers of every color, class and creed.

As recently as February, it was hard to imagine that the workers, investors and entrepreneurs who have flocked to America’s cities in recent years would flee en masse, not least because most cities had become so safe. Violent crime in the U.S. has fallen by half since the early 1990s, when the crack epidemic was raging in neighborhoods around the country. Hundreds of thousands of lives have been spared as a result of this extraordinary crime decline. Communities that saw steep declines in violence also saw increases in academic achievement, according to a 2014 study in the journal Sociological Science by Patrick Sharkey and colleagues..
I think this whole situation as outlined in this Opinion piece need be evaluated when COVID is behind us. So much of the crime and civil unrest which are the "enginators" of this movement can be laid to the pandemic. The "powers that be" both in Trenton and Washington need be cautious before committing funds to a project for which its need has greatly diminished since it was first proposed twenty years ago.
And yet the need for the interstate highways that have contributed to and maintain the buildup of those areas into suburbs has not equally diminished. If the highway remains necessary, so would other modes.

BTW, the crime and civil unrest are being fed by other factors, not the virus which to date has slain one sixth of those who fell victim to the seasonal flu in terms of numbers.
  by JoeG
 
Amtrakowitz has outdated or wrong figures. As of now 173k Americans have died of covid19. Flu deaths vary widely each year but are in the range of 20-70k. So with 6 months of the Covid pandemic it has killed from 2.5 to 8 times the annual flu toll. Please do not minimize or underestimate COVID.
  by photobug56
 
A side note to that; masking and social distancing PLUS flu shots could greatly reduce the number of flu deaths this year. IF...l
  by Jeff Smith
 
Okay, let's not turn this into a COVID thread, but I appreciate the context.
  • 1
  • 365
  • 366
  • 367
  • 368
  • 369