• Northern Branch HBLR (was DMU proposal)

  • Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.
Discussion related to New Jersey Transit rail and light rail operations.

Moderators: Tadman, nick11a, Kaback9, ACeInTheHole

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  by Irish Chieftain
 
This proposal is merely Susquehanna Transfer with a trolley in Hudson County and buses on Tonnele Avenue to NYC.

The DMU idea, remember, was inspired by the Colorado Railcar tests. No DLRVs are to be involved—the idea is to keep FRA compatibility. DMUs cannot and will not ever go to New York Penn.
  by Douglas John Bowen
 
The Star-Ledger Newshouse Corp. piece does a great job scrambling the definitions of "light rail" and diesel multiple-unit trains, to the immediate benefit of not too many.

Except, perhaps, New Jersey Transit, which has shown a demonstrable penchant for confusion and obfuscation on the matter (which we've witnessed firsthand -- we're not talking out of school here). And if we at NJ-ARP, with our hand on the pulse of this matter, get confused, what does that say for the average person trying to parse out the situation?

NJ-ARP also is mildly amused at the article's reliance on Rep. Steve Rothman (D-9), who somehow has become a rail transit expert, in the minds of some.

That said, NJ-ARP respectfully submits that, from our vantage point, the DMU deal isn't a done one yet, nor is LRT's dismissal a fait accompli. The odds are stiff, but we've faced similar odds before. We'll see how it plays out, beginning Feb. 22.

  by MickD
 
In reality it's not as good as the Susquehanna Transfer because you'll have to tranfer again at the ferry or PATH to get to Manhattan unless there's gonna' be a direct bus service ay Tonnelle Ave.

  by Irish Chieftain
 
There's a pre-existing bus service on Tonnelle Avenue, that being NJT route 127; it might or might not be frequent enough, and it will be caught up in the 30th Street (eastbound) bottleneck in Union City en route to the Lincoln Tunnel.

  by MickD
 
127 during rush hours is fairly frequent but as you say it'll still hit the the bottleneck.Off peak it's pretty spotty.
Last edited by MickD on Mon Feb 20, 2006 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  by manhattan exile
 
Thought it illuminating to look at the scheduled 166 NJT bus line to PA, which of course looks much like the Northern Branch in terms of towns served.

During Rush Hour, at least on the schedule, passengers from Tenafly can make it to PA in 45 minutes and from Englewood in 30. Tenafly frequency of service is every 10 minutes, and Englewood frequency is < 5 minutes.

I'm aware that the traffic into the Lincoln Tunnel can be a bear (pre 7AM entries into the tunnel seem to do OK), but with a switch at Lombardi and then to a ferry or PATH where's the incentive to surrender a ONE SEAT RIDE to 2 seat rail/light rail plus ferry or PATH to MIDTOWN?

Or it is worth all the money and fuss as a place-setter for THE TUNNEL?

  by Irish Chieftain
 
The Northern Branch will never, ever use THE Tunnel notwithstanding. No plans exist for it. All that abounds is politican hyperbole.
  by Douglas John Bowen
 
But let's say, just for argument's sake, that New Jersey Transit somehow does submit a plan for a "one-seat ride" between Manhattan and the Northern Branch. Let's say it somehow gets dual-mode equipment, somehow does get a workable, grade-sensible connection, somehow does get all the money to do this.

Now Bergen County has to get in line, behind the Raritan Valley Line. Behind the Montclair/Boonton Line. Heck, even behind other existing rail lines traversing Bergen County (two or three, depending on how one measures).

But Bergen County has been getting in line, and deferring its transit needs, for nigh on 30 years or better now. That's what it best knows how to do: wait. And believe in the promises of some beneficent power (New Jersey Transit?).

  by Irish Chieftain
 
They're not going to get any more highways built through there, that's for sure. And traffic in places like Bergenfield will continue to wax worse and worse...
  by manhattan exile
 
DJB and IC, I get your points and they make sense.

So can anyone answer with any sense of logic:

What's the point of reactivating service along the lines suggested?

People going to Xanadu? Maybe people wanting to eat at PF Chang's on the Hudson? Thrill seekers/railfans who want to go through the Weehawken tunnel and not drive there? See the Devils at the Meadowlands? (no wait, they're moving to Newark - that'll be three seats unless you take the bus to PA and walk to NYP - see the Giants and Jets and bet on the trotters (2 seats)

I'd love to take the train to Tenafly and get some great coffee and dessert in that beautifully restored station. But I don't get it otherwise.

  by MickD
 
None, the way it's being proposed. We're also coming up on a Senatorial and Congressional swing year election, so hyperbole certainly fits into the scenario. A distraction from Xanadu's obvious difficulties perhaps? A flyover at Croxton into Hoboken through The Arches or direct no-transfer service through Weehawken Tunnel are the only two kinds of service that could justify it.

  by wantsrail
 
Let them hear from you!

Come to this meeting to tell them how inadequate and fault-ridden the "Diesel Dinky Shuttle" that Rothman supports is.

By the way, you could also stop in the Tenafly Station Café and see the 1859 map of the Northern Railroad of NJ. It is 13 feet long. It is worth the trip.
  • Meeting Notice

    Bergen County Executive Dennis McNerney and NJ TRANSIT will hold an open house on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 in Tenafly on plans to reactivate rail service along the Northern Branch.

    Information on the project and community benefits will be available at the open house, to be held in the Parkview Room of the Clinton Inn, 145 Dean Drive, Tenafly 07670 (201-871-3200).

    NORTHERN BRANCH PROJECT STAFF WILL BE AVAILABLE TO TALK WITH THE PUBLIC FROM 3:00 TO 5:00 P.M. AND repeated at 7:00 TO 9:00 P.M.

    For additional information, contact: Charles Ingoglia, NJT 973-493-8684 or e-mail [email protected]

    IN CASE OF INCLEMENT WEATHER, CHECK THE NJ TRANSIT WEBSITE. NJtransit.com
  by Jishnu
 
Douglas John Bowen wrote:Now Bergen County has to get in line, behind the Raritan Valley Line. Behind the Montclair/Boonton Line. Heck, even behind other existing rail lines traversing Bergen County (two or three, depending on how one measures).

But Bergen County has been getting in line, and deferring its transit needs, for nigh on 30 years or better now. That's what it best knows how to do: wait. And believe in the promises of some beneficent power (New Jersey Transit?).
If NJTransit actually follows through on their current operating plan for THE Tunnel then the Northern Branch folks will have to wait for further tunnels beyond THE Tunnel to be built before they will get a one seat ride to Manhattan. The current operating plans do not have any slots allocated to Northern Branch, and there are no more slots left to allocate from THE Tunnel. Of course neither NJTransit nor the good congressman mention this inconvenient fact when they wax eloquent about future one seat ride to Manhattan using DEMUs and what nots.

  by Irish Chieftain
 
manhattan exile wrote:So can anyone answer with any sense of logic:

What's the point of reactivating service along the lines suggested?
If you ever saw the traffic congestion in northeastern Bergen County, you wouldn't even ask that question. It's horrendous up that way. They have lots of bus service (intrastate, GWBBS and PABT, by NJT, Coach USA and ShortLine), but those buses are mired in the traffic. Rail service, even going to Hoboken, would be a major relief valve in terms of transportation.
  by manhattan exile
 
IC -

Don't disagree except that how convenient is a two seat ride to HOB? If this were an extension of HBLRT (putting more
B
into the equation giving a one seat ride to HOB, would make more sense IMHO.
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