• "Up North" Gawking (District 1 sightings)

  • Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.
Guilford Rail System changed its name to Pan Am Railways in 2006. Discussion relating to the current operations of the Boston & Maine, the Maine Central, and the Springfield Terminal railroads (as well as the Delaware & Hudson while it was under Guilford control until 1988). Official site can be found here: PANAMRAILWAYS.COM.

Moderator: MEC407

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  by 690
 
Pan Am has never formally requested to abandon the line to Keag. As far as trading in the old rail on those three lines for new welded rail, I doubt they would get much in return for it, otherwise Pan Am would have been more proactive in removing rail from other areas in exchange for newer rail (for example there are several miles of track still in place on both sides of the freight main between BN27 and CPF-NC that is physically there, but otherwise unconnected).
  by KSmitty
 
Also, neither the Buck or the Madison are technically abandoned. They are storing cars all the way down the Buck, still serving the old Holtra-Chem site in Orrington, and the line is serviceable, if unserved, from the north gate of the old mill to Calais Junction.

They also still use, on occasion as needed, the first few miles of the Madison to store cars. That is unserviceable north of there at this point with healthy growth enveloping the R.o.W. No small effort to recover rail from that.

The 'Keag line was never formally filed on. And infact the occasional NM-1 is still traversing the line. Pan Am has several series of old tie cars, MEC and B&M gons, and old D&H 2 bays, along with the MEC 1200 chip gons which all still go to 'Keag, carrying spent ties up, or chocolate chips (chipped spent ties) down to Rumford. Most of these are interchanged, but one series either CM&Q or NBSR refuse. So they run an NM-1 up and back. Usually they shuttle GMTX 205, subleased from NBSR, for it's 92 day inspections as well.

The fate of the line almost certainly hinges on trackage rights to Brownville however. Trackage rights are STB regulated and long term priced. Haulage is a mutually agreeable, no regulators involved, contract over generally short terms which leads to renegotiated rates. The ability to go to Keag has given them power in those negotiations. If CM&Q charged too much they could simply walk away. With trackage rights that need for a backup connection to Irving and the line, already in disuse, wouldn't be there. I imagine they'd hold onto it until it became inconvenient to do so, first major washout, bridge failure or whatever, and then file to abandon. However, CP is fighting the claim for trackage rights, ironically because the 'Keag line still exists, so the Keag line will remain important, even if for negotiating power, going forward, unless the STB surprises everyone and grants the rights. We'll know that shortly.
  by guilfordrailfan
 
Assuming that the STB does NOT grant PAR trackage rights to Brownville giving PAR the choice either going back to Keag or negotiating haulage rights with CP, is there any realistic chance that PAR might actually choose going back to Keag?
  by roberttosh
 
I would think that if CP increases the rate significantly it certainly could be an option. Just a $200-$300 per car bump could mean Pan Am having to pay millions more in haulage fees. As an aside, what’s the average size interchange between CMQ and ST these days? Thanks.
  by gokeefe
 
If the money is better hauling via Mattawamkeag I'm sure they'll do it. I doubt CP will try to help them. If anything CP might actually have some intentions on pushing Pan Am out of Northern Maine entirely. Should make for an interesting next 5 - 10 years.

Here's a thought from fantasy island ... CP coming through from the North to Boston and Ayer could be a scenario for acquisition of Pan Am that is acceptable to the STB. They wouldn't want CSX or NS to get it and try to block each other but I think they would be comfortable with CP. PAS would likely be dissolved with NS being granted the other 50% at price that is reasonable.
  by johnpbarlow
 
Pan Am is not a party to the existing haulage rights agreement that establishes Northern Maine Jct as a Pan Am interchange point for New Brunswick Southern. Rather, the haulage rights agreement is between CMQ and NBS. I'm guessing NBS will be unhappy with any attempt on CP's part to raise the price of NBS-Pan Am interchange at N Maine Jct as that will work to deprive NBS of an alternative interchange partner (to CP) for traffic moving south or west of New Brunswick. And clearly NBS revenues for Pan Am interchange will decrease if interchange reverts to Mattawamkeag.
  by newpylong
 
gokeefe wrote: Sun May 03, 2020 10:30 pm
Here's a thought from fantasy island ... CP coming through from the North to Boston and Ayer could be a scenario for acquisition of Pan Am that is acceptable to the STB. They wouldn't want CSX or NS to get it and try to block each other but I think they would be comfortable with CP. PAS would likely be dissolved with NS being granted the other 50% at price that is reasonable.
NS doesn't want Pan Am so there is no worry there, and if they wanted all of PAS badly enough they would have made a move by now.
  by Cosakita18
 
CP Buying D1 and D2? Seems pretty unlikely unless there is new significant intermodal potential from St. John or Portland.

I know that Maine Port Authority has been talking with MSC / Maersk to bring a feeder service to Portland, which could provide some further container traffic (albeit pretty small) although that seems unlikely now given current economic realities.
Last edited by MEC407 on Mon May 04, 2020 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total. Reason: unnecessary quoting
  by fromway
 
St. John will be expanding their facilities in the near future. The big problem with SJ is the Tide situation versus Halifax. Being on the Bay of Fundy the range of tides is very problematic. Clear route on NBS to SJ for double stack.
  by bsweep
 
Yesterday I drove by the new Pleasant River sawmill facility in Enfield. There is grading and gravel work being done that certainly looks like it might be a rail siding when it's finished.
  by newpylong
 
What is up with those two forlorn boxcars? on the grown in and curvy spur just south of there? Looks like a lumber facility also of some sort.
  by Cosakita18
 
What will D1 look like when all this work is done? Will Waterville - Royal be at class 3 / 40 mph? That would be a gamechanger.
  by newpylong
 
Never. Then they would need to maintain it to that. Class 2 / 25 mph.

There are two combinations that would require them to do that - someone paying for the initial rebuild, and someone paying for the continued maintenance. Even then, highly unlikely. Pan Am Southern was rebuilt to timetable speed from Willows East to Mechanicville. Within two years it was back down to 25 with the usual 10s. That's with NS dumping cash in to keep it in shape. Fink Jr. has gone on record multiple times saying they are happy with a 25 MPH railroad.
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