CSX Acquisition of Pan Am Railways

[MEC407]

I wish we could do a poll on this forum for sale price.

Ask and ye shall receive!

Here is the poll:

https://linkto.run/p/652N4XPQ

[gokeefe]

We're talking a fraction of the total mileage that is in better condition. This is more than offset by the percentage of trackage in deplorable condition.

Do you think there's any significance to improved operating conditions over the MBTA? Or perhaps they aren't better but worse due to congestion ...



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[BandA]

Hard to determine value without knowing revenue & expenses which are private with this company.

[gokeefe]

If the rumor is true that they've made money every year since the beginning of the Mellon ownership that would have to be a very valuable Class II railroad.

I think $1B really is not out of the question. If they're bought by a public company we will find out exactly how much the buyer paid for it.

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[newpylong]

It's beyond out of the question.

[troffey]

CSX won't buy the Worcester line, there's no business to be had on it and CSX's business practices over the last few years clearly show they're not interested in marginal branches. They don't need to buy it to maintain the status quo, the STB will ensure competition for the bridge traffic from Maine. The state would probably buy it before that happened anyway.

There was talk at the time of the operational change that MassDOT would buy the Worcester Main then, but I never heard anything else.

[BandA]

How fast could the Worcester line be upgraded to for passenger service? How wide is the ROW? It's approximately the route you would want to take from NY/CT to ME.

[MEC407]

I wish we could do a poll on this forum for sale price.

Ask and ye shall receive!

Here is the poll:

https://linkto.run/p/652N4XPQ

The poll has been up for a couple days. 81 votes have been cast so far. Right now, the $500M-$750M option has a plurality of votes (37%), followed by $250M-$500M (32%), $250M or less (28%), and $1B or more (2%). A majority of respondents (60%) think the price will be less than $500M.

[newpylong]

How fast could the Worcester line be upgraded to for passenger service? How wide is the ROW? It's approximately the route you would want to take from NY/CT to ME.

Probably two construction seasons.

It is but you will never see an "inland" route like that that bypasses Boston.

[Gilbert B Norman]

By the Worcester Line, I presume we are addressing that of the B&M interchanging with the New Haven at Providence so that the "Bar Harbor", "East Wind", and the "State of Maine" could all be revived?

But I'll accept Mr. Trinnau's statement that there's not enough freight to make it worth any Class I buyer's resources to upgrade that line to FRA Class 4 either to handle (publicly funded) passenger trains, or enough interchange freight with the P&W for same.

[gokeefe]

It is but you will never see an "inland" route like that that bypasses Boston.

100% correct. Any route plan for NYP - POR must have a stop in Boston. It has been addressed in another topic.



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[Cosakita18]

By all indications, Hapag Lloyd will likely permanently switch from Montreal to Saint John for its Europe-Canada service following the unexpected industrial action in Montreal, with OOCL also seemingly likely to add Saint John Services in the near future.

I'm wondering if these sudden developments will change the dynamics of the PAR sale somewhat.

[Gilbert B Norman]

.I'm wondering if these sudden developments will change the dynamics of the PAR sale somewhat.

As in Irving upgrading their Short Line roads thst interchange with Pan Am to, say, FRA Class 3?

[bostontrainguy]

By all indications, Hapag Lloyd will likely permanently switch from Montreal to Saint John for its Europe-Canada service following the unexpected industrial action in Montreal, with OOCL also seemingly likely to add Saint John Services in the near future.

I'm wondering if these sudden developments will change the dynamics of the PAR sale somewhat.

Well CP seems to think it's worth it to send its trains across the Maine wilderness. Why wouldn't NS think there is potential to connect to their extensive system in the eastern US?

[Gilbert B Norman]

A few questions regarding NS acquiring access (as distinct from making rates and interchanging with which ever Short Lines would get them to St John).

But first, even if I have my $2 ticket on Topper, where does NS presently have trackage in Canada? If they do not, then they would need to form a Canadian subsidiary (long standing bilateral US-CA treaty).

Now would JD Irving allow them to have free access to the Port (sounds like Irving kind of "owns" St. John) and would their Maine Short Lines expect some "disproportionate" division of a rate - especially appertaining high value traffic.

The CP appears "to be at the throttle" with any traffic originaring in Canada. I guess a plus is that they now have incentive to get the SOO/CP-M up to FRA Class 3 and maybe even 4.

So not sure what benefit that the two worldwide maritime companies chosing St. John for sailings (presumably over Montreal) would present to the NS as a Pan Am "suitor".

Finally, participating at this topic has been quite an experience for me being exposed to the Northern NE railroad environment.