Amtrak Contraction Ideas <DUCKS>

[STrRedWolf]

Here's some great info on that. Map on page 7 is eye-opening.

https://www.visitflorida.org/media/6757 ... ection.pdf

Taking the 2017 data and matching it with routes, I get the following:

21.4% of visitors are from a city along the NEC, and if taking Amtrak would transfer or board a Silver series train. Another 7.7% would connect to the Silver series at WAS. Raleigh-Durham's 1.6% would take the Silver Star.

Atlanta's 7% is nothing to sneeze at, but to do it, you need to negotiate with Norfolk Southern for a few slots. Track's there, just need some more stations to Jacksonville.

[bostontrainguy]

I was more addressing the question from "R36 Combine Coach". I believe the information that 17.2% of travelers originate on the route of the Capitol Limited is interesting. So the bare bones opportunity would be to eliminate the Star and Meteor as we know them and run the Capitol Limited through D. C. to Florida splitting the train in Orlando. One big Superliner train instead of two smaller single-level trains. Again run a separate coach train between Tampa and Miami.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Mr. Trainguy, any such proposal for a WAS-MIA Superliner train from you escapes me. For wasn't it you who has proposed operating a BOS-MIA, "The Vacationer", enabling Shore Line passengers to avoid a "change at Penn"?

Now secondly, as CHI-WAS-MIA Superliner "Capitol/Star" was considered circa '95 (know so from a "quite reliable" inside source), at a time that Amtrak was "flush" with Superliners. The S-II's were on the property and the Mercer Cuts had taken hold. Further, there were only to be 50 V-I's instead of the 100 they "thought were in the bag".

But the idea was dismissed over concerns arising from ridership declines arising from loss of through PRR Corridor service - and that was that!

[bostontrainguy]

Mr. Norman,
I was responding to the above posts like this that suggested eliminating LD trains on the NEC:

Now, if you have relatively frequent baggage service on the NEC and its branches, you can reasonably terminate southern & western trains at Washington or Philadelphia and offer connecting service to other NEC points.

So my comment here relates to that idea and if it was going to happen I was suggesting turning lemons into lemonade by creating a better Midwest - Florida train at the same time. Maybe a few Amfleet II coaches (and a baggage car?) from a corridor train could be tacked onto the rear of a Superliner Capitol Limited/Silver Whatever in D.C.? Then sleeper passengers can move to their rooms and others could visit the Dining Car and Lounge once there. Coach passengers could just stay in the coaches.

I personally would love to see a Florida train go all the way to Boston. Would have been a little easier to pull off when they cut the Star's dining car and they could have made the through service a real "enhancement". But it didn't happen. And it has been mentioned above that if the train terminated in Tampa, an extension to Boston would work equipment wise.

[mtuandrew]

Unpopular opinion that throws my resident state under the bus: end the Cardinal and let the Buckingham Branch route go to freight only. Or, commit to moving the Crescent and Roanoke Service over to the BB between Orange and Charlottesville, as well as running daily service to Lexington. (West Virginia can opt into daily service beyond to Charleston. It also needs to actively create a stakeholder alliance to lobby for & invest in daily Cardinal service.)

[Pensyfan19]

Unpopular opinion that throws my resident state under the bus: end the Cardinal and let the Buckingham Branch route go to freight only. Or, commit to moving the Crescent and Roanoke Service over to the BB between Orange and Charlottesville, as well as running daily service to Lexington. (West Virginia can opt into daily service beyond to Charleston. It also needs to actively create a stakeholder alliance to lobby for & invest in daily Cardinal service.)

Or, instead of ending service on the Cardinal (a route which is one of two which go through the entire state of West Virginia might I add), what about at least daily regional service between DC and Cincinnati, and then daily service between Cincinnati and Chicago? It's essentially splitting up the route into three different and profitable trains between major regions.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Or, instead of ending service on the Cardinal (a route which is one of two which go through the entire state of West Virginia might I add), what about at least daily regional service between DC and Cincinnati, and then daily service between Cincinnati and Chicago? It's essentially splitting up the route into three different and profitable trains between major regions.

Wow!!!

The Wash-Cinci daylight "Chessie" was stillborn (I don't think RRY had any intention of running it; it was simply a "showman's stage prop"). The long standing "Sportsman" was the first casualty on the "three a day" C&O.

Uh, West Virginia is "not exactly" Florida or the Southwest when it comes to population growth.

[mtuandrew]

Or, instead of ending service on the Cardinal (a route which is one of two which go through the entire state of West Virginia might I add), what about at least daily regional service between DC and Cincinnati, and then daily service between Cincinnati and Chicago? It's essentially splitting up the route into three different and profitable trains between major regions.

That’s really what I’m getting at. If Amtrak can’t make the Cardinal a daily train for whatever reason (which would be the most efficient use of people and equipment) then cut it into relatively-effective daily segments. I’ll stand by NYP-CHW + bus to CIN versus WAS-CIN, which gives Amtrak and its state partners the added revenue of the Northeast Corridor to power a train that might be marginal otherwise.

Wow!!!

The Wash-Cinci daylight "Chessie" was stillborn (I don't think RRY had any intention of running it; it was simply a "showman's stage prop"). The long standing "Sportsman" was the first casualty on the "three a day" C&O.

Uh, West Virginia is "not exactly" Florida or the Southwest when it comes to population growth.

Nope it ain’t. If there’s service, it'll start with a significant Federal boost to the piggy bank.

[rcthompson04]

Keystone Service - Devolve smaller stops on PHL-HAR segment to extended SEPTA commuter service

I would suggest SEPTA taking over Parkesburg and Coatesville (been in planning for years) with a once every two hours service (better than Amtrak now) and eliminating Amtrak stops at Ardmore and Downingtown. I would keep Exton and Paoli east of Lancaster as they seem to be the hubs of Amtrak activity in the area.

[STrRedWolf]

Keystone Service - Devolve smaller stops on PHL-HAR segment to extended SEPTA commuter service

I would suggest SEPTA taking over Parkesburg and Coatesville (been in planning for years) with a once every two hours service (better than Amtrak now) and eliminating Amtrak stops at Ardmore and Downingtown. I would keep Exton and Paoli east of Lancaster as they seem to be the hubs of Amtrak activity in the area.

+1 for Paoli going high-level, but -1 for it going two-track to do it (no room otherwise).

[Jeff Smith]

Mr. Trainguy, the Kennedys got you folks enough "pull" up your way as is.
. . .
So extending 91-92 to BOS would simply mean operating another train over railroad that is already "slotted full"; unless you care to lean on the Commodore of the Fairfield Navy to accept fewer "movable bridge" movements.

Mr Norman,
I am speaking from experience and selfishness. Right now if I want to take a train from Boston to Florida, I can check my bags at South Station but my luggage will arrive the day after I do. On the return trip my luggage has to be picked up the next day at South Station. I have in the past taken my luggage to South Station the night before our trip so that it is in Florida when we get there. Do you think anyone who is not at least a semi-railfan is going to put up with that?

The need to change in New York Penn coupled with the lack of through luggage makes the trip a bit of a hassle. If there absolutely is no way to add a train on the NEC north of New Haven, then run it via the inland route. It's more populated anyway.

The solution is simple; use one of the Regional slots. I'm sure the capacity on an LD between WUS and BOS is there.

[Jeff Smith]

I was more addressing the question from "R36 Combine Coach". I believe the information that 17.2% of travelers originate on the route of the Capitol Limited is interesting. So the bare bones opportunity would be to eliminate the Star and Meteor as we know them and run the Capitol Limited through D. C. to Florida splitting the train in Orlando. One big Superliner train instead of two smaller single-level trains. Again run a separate coach train between Tampa and Miami.

I like the idea of extending the Cap; a revived Floridian albeit on an entirely different route. Substitute it for either of the Silvers or Palmetto.

[Jeff Smith]

Here's some great info on that. Map on page 7 is eye-opening.

https://www.visitflorida.org/media/6757 ... ection.pdf

Taking the 2017 data and matching it with routes, I get the following:

21.4% of visitors are from a city along the NEC, and if taking Amtrak would transfer or board a Silver series train. Another 7.7% would connect to the Silver series at WAS. Raleigh-Durham's 1.6% would take the Silver Star.

Atlanta's 7% is nothing to sneeze at, but to do it, you need to negotiate with Norfolk Southern for a few slots. Track's there, just need some more stations to Jacksonville.

Atlanta would be an excellent choice. What routing are you thinking beyond Macon? South down the 75 corridor through Warner Robins (yay!) and Valdosta, and thence over to Jacksonville or through Ocala, abandoned when the Silver Palm was truncated?

Or east above I-16 where there ain't JACK between Macon and Savannah, except Statesboro and Georgia Southern University. The closest NS comes to the Boro is Dover, which is, um, an interesting backwater and a good 20 minutes north on US 301. Really not a good option.

[Jeff Smith]

Unpopular opinion that throws my resident state under the bus: end the Cardinal and let the Buckingham Branch route go to freight only. Or, commit to moving the Crescent and Roanoke Service over to the BB between Orange and Charlottesville, as well as running daily service to Lexington. (West Virginia can opt into daily service beyond to Charleston. It also needs to actively create a stakeholder alliance to lobby for & invest in daily Cardinal service.)

The Cardinal would be on my list to truncate into corridors. First, start it at WUS, and use Superliners. Right now it leaves WUS at 1100 and gets to Charleston at 2029. That could be adjusted. In CIN it currently leaves at zero-dark-thirty, aka 0141, and arrives CUS at 1100. That could certainly be adjusted, or if you want, cut it back to IND.

The issue is does KY want to give up its Amtrak service? Or, for that matter, OH?

[Jeff Smith]

Mr. Trainguy, any such proposal for a WAS-MIA Superliner train from you escapes me. For wasn't it you who has proposed operating a BOS-MIA, "The Vacationer", enabling Shore Line passengers to avoid a "change at Penn"?

Now secondly, as CHI-WAS-MIA Superliner "Capitol/Star" was considered circa '95 (know so from a "quite reliable" inside source), at a time that Amtrak was "flush" with Superliners. The S-II's were on the property and the Mercer Cuts had taken hold. Further, there were only to be 50 V-I's instead of the 100 they "thought were in the bag".

But the idea was dismissed over concerns arising from ridership declines arising from loss of through PRR Corridor service - and that was that!

Use the time savings on the southern end of the Star by truncating at Tampa and extend to BOS. You've already got a commissary operation there. Use a Regional slot. Doesn't have to be Superliners; as noted above by extending the Cap.