Track work on the NEC

[RRspatch]

From what Jeff posted and my CETC 1 knowledge of the territory it looks like they're only redoing Track "A" between Winans and Bridge and probably surfacing on No.1 track. I would see no reason to shut down No.2 and No.3 track between Bridge and Grove unless the concrete ties on those tracks are going bad already.

Or you're swapping the wood on the interlocks for concrete, which is what I see off of Google Maps. Just doing Track A? Not an issue.

As far as turning Winans into a full interlocking I believe long range plans are for a new interlocking just south of Stony Run curve which is just south of BWI. Eventual plans are to extend "A" track down to Grove so I would guess at that point Winans would go away. I believe one of the reasons for the new station building at BWI was to create a bigger space between the station building and the No.1 track platform for a future "A" track. Once done the No.1 track platform would become an island platform with the overhead walkway extended over it.

Remembering my CETC 1 days ....

The plan was to extend Track A all the way to GROVE and then rename it 1, bumping all the other numbers up 2-3-4. This would require a complete rebuild of BWI, pushing the station north, building a new bridge over the tracks, laying down two new tracks, and turning existing track 1 into an island platform.

Right now, though... well, it can still be done... but it makes the rebuilt station feel like $5mil wasted.

(Note: spent way too long fighting with HTML codes to try and get my replies inserted at the right point. Had a long day and was too tired to fight with the computer)

(Regarding replacing switches at Winans and Bridge)
While it's possible Winans is getting a concrete switch I seriously doubt Bridge is getting redone at this point. Amtrak will probably wait for a new B&P tunnel before doing anything major at Bridge such as re-configuring the interlocking. As far as changing out wood for concrete in switches Amtrak has/had a large machine called the Switch Exchange System (SES) that could remove half of an old switch (rail cut at the mid point) and replace it with a new switch panel. When I saw this done back in the 80's during my Baltimore division tower days Amtrak was only using wood for switches. The whole procedure to replace one end of a crossover was usually done on a Saturday night starting at 2200. The switch was installed, surfaced, tested and back in service by Sunday afternoon once the signal department released it. I'm pretty sure the SES can handle concrete switches. Assuming Amtrak still has this system I see no need for a long term outage at Bridge to replace the No.91 and No.12 switches if Amtrak decides to renew them now. Amtrak is in the process for replacing the switches at Hook. I asked on one of the FB Amtrak groups if they were using the SES and concrete ties but I never got an answer. I assume Amtrak is using concrete at Hook.

(Regarding new station at BWI and future Track "A" though same as well as track renumbering)
I don't think you'll see the tracks renumbered between Grove and Bridge until a new B&P tunnel is built. From what I've heard the plan is for a diverging switch at Grove from No.1 track to Track A which I guess would be called the No.19 switch. As for BWI the best plan would be to have two island platforms with one serving "A" and No.1 and the other serving No.2 and No.3 track. Looking at the Google Street View image of BWI station (just past the Mack cement truck) I'm guessing there's not enough room between the new station building and the No.1 track platform to squeeze track "A" in. So yes, it's probably $5 million wasted. I must say that's a pretty impressive parking garage they've built since I was last back east.

(regarding to plan to extend Track "A" to Grove and why they're doing it .... someday)
The plan to extend "A" track down to Grove basically gives MARC a northbound track to it's self between Hanson/Carroll and Bridge. No longer would they have to hold at Grove for an Amtrak train (ACELA or Regional) ahead stoppig at BWI. Southbound Amtrak added a new switch at Bridge going from No.3 track to No.2 track (No.23) which allows a parallel from No.3 to No.2 at the same time a northbound is going from No.1/"A" to No.2 track. This now allows a MARC train to be sent out of Baltimore ahead of a late out of slot Amtrak train. The Amtrak train (assuming it doesn't stop at BWI) runs No.2 track Bridge to Grove or perhaps (depending on traffic) all the way to Carroll where Amtrak installed a new No.32 switch.

By the way extending "A" track south to Grove would be the easy part. Going further south the tracks slew from one side to the other in two places. Because of these two track slews platforms at Odenton (No.1 track side), Bowie State and Seabrook (No.3 track side) would have to be moved back for the forth track. I'm guessing Grove to Bowie would be the next segment to be added.

[twropr]

Are flat cars or bridge plates being used for passengers to access Baltimore-bound trains at Halethorpe and West Baltimore?
Andy

[STrRedWolf]

By the way extending "A" track south to Grove would be the easy part. Going further south the tracks slew from one side to the other in two places. Because of these two track slews platforms at Odenton (No.1 track side), Bowie State and Seabrook (No.3 track side) would have to be moved back for the forth track. I'm guessing Grove to Bowie would be the next segment to be added.

I explored this out earlier (I pick up at Odenton myself going northbound pre-pandemic). At Odenton, you got plenty of room to move the platform back 12 feet against the tunnel opening. Any further and you're reconstructing a tunnel... which may be in the cards since Amtrak recognizes that this is "too busy" station for MARC and wants to give it an island platform.

Bowie State... well, your extending two tunnels, full stop.

[RRspatch]

Are flat cars or bridge plates being used for passengers to access Baltimore-bound trains at Halethorpe and West Baltimore?
Andy

At Halethorpe a flat car or two are on Track "A" with bridge plates out to No.2 track. West Baltimore has a low level platform. I assume walkways out to No.2 track are being provided. There have been pictures posted to the FB "Amtrak Northeast Corridor Railfans" group showing the flat cars and bridge plates at Halethorpe. The bridge plates at Halethorpe can be removed to allow work trains and MW equipment past. I assume there are flat cars at BWI on No.1 track as well.

[RRspatch]

By the way extending "A" track south to Grove would be the easy part. Going further south the tracks slew from one side to the other in two places. Because of these two track slews platforms at Odenton (No.1 track side), Bowie State and Seabrook (No.3 track side) would have to be moved back for the forth track. I'm guessing Grove to Bowie would be the next segment to be added.

I explored this out earlier (I pick up at Odenton myself going northbound pre-pandemic). At Odenton, you got plenty of room to move the platform back 12 feet against the tunnel opening. Any further and you're reconstructing a tunnel... which may be in the cards since Amtrak recognizes that this is "too busy" station for MARC and wants to give it an island platform.

Bowie State... well, your extending two tunnels, full stop.

Yes, I do see that the east tunnel entrance at Odenton is indeed back far enough for the No.1 track platform to be moved back. As for Bowie State the first track slew from empty track way 1-2-3 to 1-2-3 empty track way is around MP 117 where the new curve was created as part of NECIP back in the 80's. Building a new track along side No.1 track from Grove to MP 117 and a new track along side No.3 track from MP 117 to Bowie would be the way to do it. Several weekends to do a cut and throw on each track would give you four tracks Bridge to Bowie. At that time you could reconfigure Bridge so that MARC was on the outside tracks and Amtrak on the center tracks. A similar track slew occurs just south of Seabrook at MP 125 but that could be phase 3 Bowie to Carroll.

[twropr]

Has anyone seen or heard how Hanson, the new interlocking near Landover, is progressing?
Andy

[STrRedWolf]

Has anyone seen or heard how Hanson, the new interlocking near Landover, is progressing?
Andy

I haven't heard anything yet, but I won't be surprised if it's already complete. It's been 2+ years since the last time I was going down there by MARC.

[TheOneKEA]

How often does Amtrak do rail replacements on the plain line sections in the stations? I’ve noticed that some of the rail heads are looking worn and either need replacing, or at least some form of rail grinding to clean them up.

Regarding th rebuilding of Odenton station for four tracks, my preference would be to move the northbound platform to the north and place it on top of the old Nevamar switch lead. This would free up lots of space to build up the Kiss & Ride and transit drop off space on that side of the station and would also provide room for the eventual overpass that the MTA wants to construct at the station.

Did the far end of GROVE interlocking ever have more crossovers at the southern entrance to the MoW yard? There’s an old signal bridge south of the yard; was that part of GROVE at some point? Will Amtrak remove it when they conduct their next big track work project in this area?

[STrRedWolf]

Given that the lead's been disconnected and Nevamar's gone for good (raised to the ground -- got a relative who worked there), moving the platform up and over would work nicely... and having a cross-over bridge will help with the evening rush-hour traffic (imagine a few hundred people cramming into the underpass tunnel every 15-30 minutes).

[RRspatch]

How often does Amtrak do rail replacements on the plain line sections in the stations? I’ve noticed that some of the rail heads are looking worn and either need replacing, or at least some form of rail grinding to clean them up.

Regarding th rebuilding of Odenton station for four tracks, my preference would be to move the northbound platform to the north and place it on top of the old Nevamar switch lead. This would free up lots of space to build up the Kiss & Ride and transit drop off space on that side of the station and would also provide room for the eventual overpass that the MTA wants to construct at the station.

Did the far end of GROVE interlocking ever have more crossovers at the southern entrance to the MoW yard? There’s an old signal bridge south of the yard; was that part of GROVE at some point? Will Amtrak remove it when they conduct their next big track work project in this area?

Grove was a new build interlocking as part of NECIP. What you currently see at Grove is what's been there since the early 80's. Grove was built as a replacement for Odenton and Vern interlockings.

The only improvements I could see at Grove would be to convert all the switches to No.32 turnouts and add two more switches when ever a fourth track is added. This would require moving the home signals further out at both ends of the interlocking.

[scratchyX1]

Has anyone seen or heard how Hanson, the new interlocking near Landover, is progressing?
Andy

I haven't heard anything yet, but I won't be surprised if it's already complete. It's been 2+ years since the last time I was going down there by MARC.

It's still MMMBoping around?

[TheOneKEA]

Did the far end of GROVE interlocking ever have more crossovers at the southern entrance to the MoW yard? There’s an old signal bridge south of the yard; was that part of GROVE at some point? Will Amtrak remove it when they conduct their next big track work project in this area?

Grove was a new build interlocking as part of NECIP. What you currently see at Grove is what's been there since the early 80's. Grove was built as a replacement for Odenton and Vern interlockings.

The only improvements I could see at Grove would be to convert all the switches to No.32 turnouts and add two more switches when ever a fourth track is added. This would require moving the home signals further out at both ends of the interlocking.

Where were the former interlockings located?

I agree with your statements about adding more crossovers at GROVE. What’s the maximum line speed over the interlocking today and how much faster could it be with No. 32 turnouts? Is it possible to rebuild the interlocking to allow movements at full line speed?

[RRspatch]

Did the far end of GROVE interlocking ever have more crossovers at the southern entrance to the MoW yard? There’s an old signal bridge south of the yard; was that part of GROVE at some point? Will Amtrak remove it when they conduct their next big track work project in this area?

Grove was a new build interlocking as part of NECIP. What you currently see at Grove is what's been there since the early 80's. Grove was built as a replacement for Odenton and Vern interlockings.

The only improvements I could see at Grove would be to convert all the switches to No.32 turnouts and add two more switches when ever a fourth track is added. This would require moving the home signals further out at both ends of the interlocking.

Where were the former interlockings located?

I agree with your statements about adding more crossovers at GROVE. What’s the maximum line speed over the interlocking today and how much faster could it be with No. 32 turnouts? Is it possible to rebuild the interlocking to allow movements at full line speed?

Odenton interlocking was located at Odenton station. You can still see Odenton "tower" (actually a one story block house) at the north-end of the northbound platform. The interlocking was on a curve which is a big no no for maintaining a smooth ride around a curve. Amtrak moved several interlocking off of curves as part of NECIP.

Vern interlocking was located about a mile north of Grove. This interlocking was setup to allow a freight train to follow a faster passenger train. From Landover to Vern the tracks were numbered 1, 2 and 3. North of Vern they were 2, 3 and 4. Vern was located halfway between Washington and Baltimore. With freight drying up on the corridor (Amtrak basically ran off Conrail, but that's another story for another time) the overtake aspect of Vern was no longer needed.

As for the layout of Grove, there are four switches at Grove. They are the No.12, No.21, No.23 and the No.32 all numbered south to north from the starting track to the ending track. The 12, 23 and 32 switches are No.20 turnouts that are good for 45MPH. The No.21 switch is a No.32 turnout that's good for 80MPH. This switch, the first of it's kind in the US, was installed for northbound Amtrak trains stopping at BWI on No.1 track. Amtrak has since installed No.32 turnouts at "Swift" just east of Newark (Mid Town Direct connection) and at an interlocking between New Haven and Boston. I believe "Hanson" will also feature No.32 turnouts.

As for upgrading the three remaining switches at Grove to No.32 turnouts I doubt Amtrak will do anything until someone comes up with the money to add a fourth track between Hanson and Winans. Grove is on a straightaway so moving the home signals to install longer turnouts shouldn't be a problem. With rule 562 coming to the south-end one of these days moving the distant signals to Grove won't be an issue.

Remembering my CETC 1 daze ....

[RRspatch]

Has anyone seen or heard how Hanson, the new interlocking near Landover, is progressing?
Andy

I haven't heard anything yet, but I won't be surprised if it's already complete. It's been 2+ years since the last time I was going down there by MARC.

Looking at Landover interlocking on Google satellite view I see what looks to be a new southbound home signal just south of the route 202 overhead bridge. When Hanson cuts in all the switches at Landover will be retired except the switch where the two CSXT freight tracks merge into No.1 track. Seeing this new signal now in place I'm guessing the cutover at Hanson is getting close. I'm hoping Amtrak had enough common sense to leave the catenary up on No.1 track between Landover and Hanson. This would allow MARC to turn trains at NCR if they so desire without blocking No.2 or No.3 track south of Hanson.

[STrRedWolf]

The long-term goal is to have MARC trains get out of the way of Amtrak trains before NCR and onto a new platform off Track 1. There looks to be enough room to build said platform there, although getting an elevator, escalator, and stairs there will likely require reworking the waiting area (which has plenty of room and change, it's freakin' huge).