Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the operations of MTA MetroNorth Railroad including west of Hudson operations and discussion of CtDOT sponsored rail operations such as Shore Line East and the Springfield to New Haven Hartford Line

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 #1503820  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
Additionally, all the land abutting the railroad right of way is public land, ie Scarsdale (incidentally, parking lot south of the train station, which is Eastchester's was leased to them by the railroad). So is the land in WP public land.
 #1504662  by TCurtin
 
More details on that matter

1. Yes the ROW is 4 tracks wide all the way to NWP.

2. There were once 3 tracks in White Plains station (the pre-high platform station, not the one there now). The third track was on the northbound side. I have heard people swear up and down on this forum that there were four but I have been told (years ago) by multiple NYC men that there were never four, only three. That third track went all the way to NWP. It was gone by the 60s, I don't know more details than that. The third track did remain for some distance south from NWP and I recall it being used for pickup and setout of strings of freight cars

3. There were four (Two middle sidings) at Crestwood. One continued north about a mile beyond Crestwood. I personally remember those being there in the 60s.


4. When the third track was put in north from Mt. Vernon west,for some strange reason they did not use the previously graded ROW and the pre-existing bridge abutments crossing the Bronx River south of Bronxville. I never understood why.

Sure, it's possible -- at least engineering-wise -- to add more track anywhere in there, but a monumental and costly project to be sure!!
 #1504709  by Backshophoss
 
The track was in an elevated fill thru downtown White Plains as was White Plains station,there may have been 3 tracks before the elevated fill
was built,but that option is now long gone.
The redevelopment of Downtown White Plains has seen to that!
As I remember it,It was always 2 tracks from CP Scar to east end of NW Tower limits,
center track was used for staging power swaps at North White Plains and a switch lead for the yard between the 2 mains at NW.
 #1505062  by Ridgefielder
 
Actually I don't think there were pre-graded abutments at the Bronx River bridge north of Midland Avenue.

The 2-track bridge is an absolutely antique stone-arch structure that dates from the 1870's double-tracking of the New York & Harlem. The date's carved on the keystone- I'll take a picture at some point (there's a public footpath that crosses under the bridge by the river.) I'm guessing the NYC didn't bother touching it when they widened the ROW in the 1910's since it was reasonably new at that point & they figured they'd come back and deal with it later.
 #1506084  by Amtrak67 of America
 
TCurtin wrote:More details on that matter

1. Yes the ROW is 4 tracks wide all the way to NWP.

2. There were once 3 tracks in White Plains station (the pre-high platform station, not the one there now). The third track was on the northbound side. I have heard people swear up and down on this forum that there were four but I have been told (years ago) by multiple NYC men that there were never four, only three. That third track went all the way to NWP. It was gone by the 60s, I don't know more details than that. The third track did remain for some distance south from NWP and I recall it being used for pickup and setout of strings of freight cars

3. There were four (Two middle sidings) at Crestwood. One continued north about a mile beyond Crestwood. I personally remember those being there in the 60s.


4. When the third track was put in north from Mt. Vernon west,for some strange reason they did not use the previously graded ROW and the pre-existing bridge abutments crossing the Bronx River south of Bronxville. I never understood why.

Sure, it's possible -- at least engineering-wise -- to add more track anywhere in there, but a monumental and costly project to be sure!!
The row is NOT 4 tracks wide all the way to NWP because if it was how would you explain the tightness of space at Scarsdale ?
 #1506471  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
Photo shows how NB platform at Scarsdale is pushed all the way out with space for trackways to the right. Still exists this way today.[attachment=0]Scarsdale.jpg[/attachment]
Attachments:
Scarsdale.jpg
Scarsdale.jpg (82.77 KiB) Viewed 3527 times
 #1506740  by Amtrak67 of America
 
Very good point. For some reason as I run trains there, I never really noticed the space for the extra tracks at Scarsdale but looking at satellite views and YouTube videos I can see it wouldnt be hard to do. Honestly the Harlem really needs the 3rd track to south of white plains station.
 #1506743  by UpperHarlemLine4ever
 
Its really needed all the way to North White Plains. It would be self defeating to end ot south of White Plains. Service basically doubles from NWP. To triple track to south of WP would create a bottleneck.
 #1506789  by Amtrak67 of America
 
Yes it should go to NWP but itll never happen especially with WP station layout and location and the fact that the MTA is pumping loads of money into its reconstruction. I would think that having it go to WP is better than nothing and done right it would work just as well
 #1506826  by hs3730
 
The main benefits for a 3rd track are:
(1) to facilitate express trains passing locals
(2) to allow trains to terminate / originate out of the way, and
(3) flexibility for planned (and unplanned) service disruption

Since all but deadheading trains stop at White Plains, and none start there, reducing to 2 tracks for the station isn't that much of an impediment to better service.
 #1539110  by Jeff Smith
 
Backshophoss wrote: Tue Mar 12, 2019 9:04 pm There was room for a Baggage/Express siding for a freight Elevator structure to bring baggage/express/mail to /from street level.
There was never the room for a third track on the elevated structure thru downtown White Plains
Provided stimulus money, couldn't you build a third track on the southbound (west) side on a new viaduct?
 #1539228  by Backshophoss
 
NO,the redevelopment of White Plains started the same time as the then "NEW" White Plains station was built,
destroying a well built NYC that was there.all in the QUEST for a modern city,to bring corporate HQ's out of NYC.
Any land grabs by MN via condemnation would create the craziest court case yet.
 #1539236  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Even if the third track is extended to just south of WP Station and then starts up again just north of WP, that is better than nothing. Almost every train stops in White Plains-they have to as that is a major employment center.
 #1539240  by DutchRailnut
 
problem is for example the rail road property south of Scarsdale were sold to put up parking places for residents. its no longer owned by railroad .
scarsdale station when at one time having room lost that to high level platforms .