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  • Budd Amfleet I Replacement Discussion

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1526300  by John_Perkowski
 
No matter who is announced, the award will be issued with a hold work order until the inevitable protests clear the General Accounting Office. That may take a while.
 #1526321  by WhartonAndNorthern
 
John_Perkowski wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 2:13 am No matter who is announced, the award will be issued with a hold work order until the inevitable protests clear the General Accounting Office. That may take a while.
I don't know. While the language of the contracting process is similar to the federal process (RFP, SOW, etc.), I imagine this is one time where Amtrak can play the "we're a private company" game.
 #1526369  by Tadman
 
mtuandrew wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:06 pm
electricron wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:41 amThat case study should start with the V-I procurement. All Viewliners have been built to a design Amtrak owns from initial design to manufacturing floor changes. Every single one is therefore a custom build. Custom build is never cheaper than off the shelf.
It’s a procurement model that worked well for the N&W and the Milwaukee, which had their own manufacturing facilities.
I don’t know that you can make that assertion, the Milwaukee was not known for good decisions and was perpetually broke. The South Milwaukee shops also horrendously botched the Bipolar rebuild leading to early retirement and scrapping.

Can you imagine Beech Grove building the AEM7 replacement? Further, most roads are moving away from having multiple heavy shops and farm lots out to NRE and similar.
 #1526375  by Gilbert B Norman
 
Tadman wrote:I don’t know that you can make that assertion, the Milwaukee was not known for good decisions and was perpetually broke. The South Milwaukee shops also horrendously botched the Bipolar rebuild leading to early retirement and scrapping.
Mr. Dunville, I have to agree.

Considering that in the waning days, a CMO was outright fired for "irregularities" that I wondered about as an Auditor, but had best "keep to myself" I quickly came to the conclusion "what is this outfit" I hired on to?

But the "paychecks cleared" and I was having fun traveling about the System; so I stayed until "The Bankruptcy" changed everything. I "checked out" end of '81 (did one day during '82 to get my four weeks vacation).
 #1526691  by Literalman
 
A minor name correction: in 2004 the General Accounting Office changed its name to Government Accountability Office. Same initials.
 #1526728  by urr304
 
It is amazing, I rode my first Amtrak trains 43 years ago this past weekend [New London-NYP] and with Amfleet equipment mostly. Here we are all these years later and the Amfleets are 10 or more years older than the equipment they replaced.

IIRC Amfleet I equipment were ordered within the first two years, how long has this replacement process taken now?
 #1526779  by gokeefe
 
It has taken a while but a very successful rebuild program ten years ago and the "refresh" has reduced the urgency of this procurement when compared to other needs.

The ACS-64 program was bordering on "do or die" for Amtrak along with the P42 truck replacement.
 #1527796  by Matt Johnson
 
frequentflyer wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am Anderson stated at a recent congressional committee that Amtrak was leaning toward EMU/DMU as Amfleet replacements for the NEC.
That makes so little sense when you consider Amtrak's stated desire to avoid fixed consists, its varied routes from North Carolina to western Pennsylvania to Vermont & Maine which use the NEC as a hub, and its practice of adjusting consists to meet demand (particularly around the Thanksgiving holiday and other peak travel periods).

Not to mention Amtrak's recently acquired fleet of ACS-64 electric locomotives!
 #1527799  by frequentflyer
 
Matt Johnson wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:53 am
frequentflyer wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am Anderson stated at a recent congressional committee that Amtrak was leaning toward EMU/DMU as Amfleet replacements for the NEC.
That makes so little sense when you consider Amtrak's stated desire to avoid fixed consists, its varied routes from North Carolina to western Pennsylvania to Vermont & Maine which use the NEC as a hub, and its practice of adjusting consists to meet demand (particularly around the Thanksgiving holiday and other peak travel periods).

Not to mention Amtrak's recently acquired fleet of ACS-64 electric locomotives!
Every commuter agency between DC and Boston will be in line to snap up 5-7 year old Sprinters by the time the first EMU/DMU is delivered.
 #1527800  by mtuandrew
 
frequentflyer wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am Anderson stated at a recent congressional committee that Amtrak was leaning toward EMU/DMU as Amfleet replacements for the NEC.
Is that Amtrak’s preference or Anderson’s preference? I suspect it’s the latter - he’s used to managing fixed-consist variable-frequency service (need more capacity? Schedule another Airbus half an hour later), while Amtrak and American railroads generally have historically offered fixed-frequency variable-consist service due to timetable constraints.
 #1527801  by electricron
 
Matt Johnson wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:53 am
frequentflyer wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am Anderson stated at a recent congressional committee that Amtrak was leaning toward EMU/DMU as Amfleet replacements for the NEC.
That makes so little sense when you consider Amtrak's stated desire to avoid fixed consists, its varied routes from North Carolina to western Pennsylvania to Vermont & Maine which use the NEC as a hub, and its practice of adjusting consists to meet demand (particularly around the Thanksgiving holiday and other peak travel periods).
Not to mention Amtrak's recently acquired fleet of ACS-64 electric locomotives!
MU stands for multiple units, not multiple cars.
There are many EMUs and DMUs trains in Europe that have a maximum of 4 to 6 cars permanently attached per unit, with trains having two to three units coupled together depending upon ridership needs.
You need a 4 car train, use a 4 car unit.
You need a 5 car unit, use a 5 car unit or a 3 car unit and a 2 car unit
You need a 6 car train, use a 6 car unit or two units of 3 cars
You need a 7 car train, use a 4 car unit and a 3 car unit
You need an 8 car train, use two 4 car units or a 6 car unit and a 2 car unit
Generally, with multiple units you will not be able to walk the entire train, but who does so now anyways?
My point is that flexibility can be attained, both shorter and longer trains, by ordering units with different amount of cars per unit, then coupling the units together as needed.

The Midwest order for new Siemens cars also works with different married pairs and single units.
88 CARS FOR ILLINOIS
20 individual coach car - 2 doors
34 Coach car for business or cafe married pair - 2 doors
17 Business/economy car - 4 doors
17 Lounge cars - 4 doors
88 Total
As configured on the various trains
17 Business/economy cars married to 17 of the 34 coach cars
17 Lounge cars married to 17 of the 34 coach cars
20 individual coach cars added to trains needing more than a 4 car train.
The Midwest order to date does not include any cab cars.
 #1527806  by frequentflyer
 
mtuandrew wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:58 pm
frequentflyer wrote: Wed Dec 11, 2019 11:12 am Anderson stated at a recent congressional committee that Amtrak was leaning toward EMU/DMU as Amfleet replacements for the NEC.
Is that Amtrak’s preference or Anderson’s preference? I suspect it’s the latter - he’s used to managing fixed-consist variable-frequency service (need more capacity? Schedule another Airbus half an hour later), while Amtrak and American railroads generally have historically offered fixed-frequency variable-consist service due to timetable constraints.
https://youtu.be/rsqf2pN2lYE?t=8286

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