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  • Why doesn't Amtrak have more stations around NYC?

  • Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.
Discussion related to Amtrak also known as the National Railroad Passenger Corp.

Moderators: GirlOnTheTrain, mtuandrew, Tadman

 #1526242  by ThirdRail7
 
For those of you that recall, there was a proposal to build a train station at Sunnyside as part of East Side Access. It is still on the books but it is majorly delayed due to the lagging East Side Access project.


"Nearly 20 years have passed since Long Island City was promised a new station in Sunnyside Yards and it is way past time for the state to deliver," U.S. Rep. Carolyn Maloney, who represents Long Island City, said on Monday. "We need a transportation system that recognizes and accommodates the growing number of riders on our railways and one that recognizes our city's changing commuting patterns."

The proposed Sunnyside Rail Yards station at Queens Boulevard would be a transportation hub connecting the LIRR to Amtrak and NJ Transit, which also use the yard.

So, what's the hold up? Central to the construction work on East Side Access is a rail junction in Sunnyside called Harold Interlocking — the busiest in the country, according to the MTA. Building the Sunnyside station now, a spokesperson said, would interfere with that work on East Side Access.

And with trains traveling to Penn Station every two to three minutes, adding a stop at Sunnyside could congest the entire railroad; once the LIRR can travel to Grand Central, schedules could become more flexible.
Right now, space and capacity is lacking, they are still building the necessary tracks to service a potential without disrupting the entire area. The new western bypass track from the Hell Gate line to Harold is starting to take shape, which will remove some of the conflicting routes from LIRR territory to Amtrak's New Haven line.


Once that is complete, they may still go forward with the Sunnyside station, particularly if they still plan on building over Sunnyside Yard. That plan has been move into the limelight again, as plans are starting to take shape:


https://sunnysidepost.com/new-yorks-edc ... ay-meeting

Sept. 17, 2019. By Shane O’Brien

The New York City EDC released a number of design concepts for the Sunnyside Yard at a public meeting in Long Island City last night as the planning process for the gigantic site continues.

The three-hour meeting held at Aviation High School was attended by more than 200 people and was the subject of a planned protest by dozens of activists who are wary of its development. The meeting, for much of the evening, was an orderly affair.

<snip>

The EDC also provided details for a road grid at Monday’s meeting. The city plans to develop identically sized blocks and a number of different types of thoroughfares at Sunnyside Yard.

There are plans for shared streets for cars, cyclists and pedestrians as well as plans for the centralized greenway. The shared streets would have a maximum speed limit of 5-10 mph.


There is also a plan to install a corridor on either side of the yard. The corridors would run the length of the yard and connect existing regions in Long Island City and Sunnyside. They would also be used for bus routes.

The EDC plans to develop a train station, which would potentially be serviced by Amtrak, LIRR and Metro North.


So, there have been plans for a stop in LIC for years. That is really the only place in in NYC that is suitable since Amtrak's actually footprint in NYC isn't that big. You have the Empire Connection, The Hell Gate Line and the NYT district.

As mentioned above, you have plenty to the west of NYC and NRO is not too far East. You have to look at accessibility and parking, which takes real estate. That is another factor. It would be quite expensive to build a station on your own in NYC and you're bound to run into opposition. As a provider of intercity service, you'd have to plan carefully. That alone would limit the Empire Connection since a significant portion of it is underground and a fair portion of the rest of it is on a viaduct. At that point, you're almost in YNY, which is served by Amtrak.

Unless you're going to have the passengers rappel down the Hell Gate Bridge, Long Island City is really the only place that is accessible and would have suitable land for a station in Queens.

Hunterspoint Market is PAST the tunnels that lead into Penn station, so if you used the station, you'd have to put up catenary, make the stop, back up and then proceed to NYP.

That would be time-consuming and unnecessary.
 #1526270  by njtmnrrbuff
 
Having a stop for Amtrak in Sunnyside would probably have many benefits. First, there are several sections of Brooklyn very close to the Queens border where many people live(LIC, Greenpoint, Bushwick) and those people would rather not have to backtrack to Manhattan to get their Amtrak train. Having Amtrak trains stop in Sunnyside would be great for passengers who live in many parts of Nassau County. For those people who live in Suffolk County who are heading points east toward Providence and Boston-you have your ferries to Bridgeport and New London. Just a little nitpik, the nickname for the Amtrak NEC section from Harold Interlocking that runs across the Hellgate and through the South and East Bronx is the Hellgate Line. Yes, it used to be a former New Haven RR owned line. The New Haven Line is referred to the Metro North route that runs from Woodlawn to New Haven and Amtrak trains interchange with MNR's New Haven Line at CP216 in New Rochelle and follow the New Haven Line for the rest of that route.
 #1526279  by STrRedWolf
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:24 pm Let's look at this another way.

Say I live in Oyster Bay (or anywhere in Long Island), and I have to go to Boston or Washington.

Why in the world would I drive past LaGuardia (or take a train past LaGuardia) to get to NY Penn to take Amtrak?

Same for people in Long Island City: why in the world would they go into Manhattan to get to NY Penn to take Amtrak, when LGA is right nearby?

Another Amtrak station- and Jamaica or Hunterspoint Avenue are great ideas- makes Amtrak much more competitive for these people.
Time, Experience, Money. Take NYC to DC.

Checking Kayak... American Airlines is hovering $149 (minus fees and such) for direct flights from LaGuardia to DC Regan National... but they're quoting a 1h 11m flight time, you got to get there 2 hours in advance (at least), they'll charge extra for wifi service that you can only use for 50 minutes at most(it's dog slow because everyone's on it), plus you have to navigate *out* to baggage claim and wait to pick up your bags (if you had to check bags in, in the first place). Oh, and you're not actually IN DC. No, you got to take a subway into DC proper and that's another half hour spent. So that's nearly four hours there, and you have to endure LaGuardia Airport (I've heard horror stories).

...or you can go to Penn, be in DC proper in 3.5 hours or less, for $54 ($137 for "less time"), and use the wifi (which is still crap) or your own cell phone for the entire trip. Oh, and you get to avoid the TSA checkpoints and LaGuardia Airport.

I do agree, there should be some Amtrak trains going up the LIRR. But the LIRR's a bit full!
 #1526285  by GojiMet86
 
Going from LIC or Astoria (which is where I live) to Penn isn't that difficult nor is it taxing. It is 25-30 minutes by the subway and a 5 minute walk to Penn.

Going to LGA on bus (M60) takes about 25 minutes from Astoria (for LIC, add extra 10 minutes or so) if traffic is good. But the time it takes to go through security, wait, and board the plane is wayyy longer than getting on the train.

Also going to add that if you add an Amtrak stop at Sunnyside, it would probably be the shortest distance between Amtrak stops (certainly shorter than any distance between the Hartford line Amtrak stops).

Metro-North or even a new subway line would be a more beneficial use of an LIC/Astoria stop than Amtrak.
 #1526287  by andrewjw
 
SouthernRailway wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:24 pm Let's look at this another way.

Say I live in Oyster Bay (or anywhere in Long Island), and I have to go to Boston or Washington.

Why in the world would I drive past LaGuardia (or take a train past LaGuardia) to get to NY Penn to take Amtrak?
What do you mean "a train past LGA"? There is no train route that stops near enough to LGA for it to be faster to get to LGA than to Penn, as I showed above. Sure, you pass geographically close, but there is no rail infrastructure to get to LGA...
 #1526308  by eolesen
 
STrRedWolf wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:25 pmyou got to get there 2 hours in advance (at least)
Hogwash... If you have PreCheck or Clear (which most self-respecting business traveler will), you can cut showing up at the airport down to 45-60 minutes. I did it weekly for three years... never once missed a flight.

Unless your business is within a half mile of Washington Union Station, your transit time on arrival is probably a wash taking Uber from DCA vs. Metro or Uber from WAS.
 #1526316  by ebtmikado
 
[quote=

Another Amtrak station- and Jamaica or Hunterspoint Avenue are great ideas- makes Amtrak much more competitive for these people.
[/quote]

Every stop makes the train slower, thus discouraging all passengers.
 #1526325  by mtuandrew
 
Amtrak & MTA could tuck a station into the 125th Street area off the Empire Connection. That would help the folks headed to Columbia U, the far Upper West Side and the Bronx if they’re willing to walk a couple blocks up the hill to the 1 line.
 #1526326  by SouthernRailway
 
ebtmikado wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:30 am [quote=

Another Amtrak station- and Jamaica or Hunterspoint Avenue are great ideas- makes Amtrak much more competitive for these people.
Every stop makes the train slower, thus discouraging all passengers.
[/quote]

True. You're right. At least the train would already be traveling slowly so the increased travel time would be less than, say, stopping at Princeton Junction.
 #1526328  by Rockingham Racer
 
ebtmikado wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 10:30 am [quote=

Another Amtrak station- and Jamaica or Hunterspoint Avenue are great ideas- makes Amtrak much more competitive for these people.
Every stop makes the train slower, thus discouraging all passengers.
[/quote]

Do you really think all trains make all stops? Anyway, there's another thread here that discusses that possibility. Further, Amtrak is planning non-stop Acelas between New York and Boston, but I don't see how that will be well patronized.
 #1526343  by njtmnrrbuff
 
The disadvantages of having Amtrak stop at Sunnyside are probably equaled to the benefits. Yes, it will slow down the trip times. Sunnyside is still close enough to NYP that people don’t mind taking a short subway ride underneath the East River. Yes Sunnyside would be best as an all commuter rail station.
 #1526365  by ThirdRail7
 
mtuandrew wrote: Wed Nov 27, 2019 12:24 pm Amtrak & MTA could tuck a station into the 125th Street area off the Empire Connection. That would help the folks headed to Columbia U, the far Upper West Side and the Bronx if they’re willing to walk a couple blocks up the hill to the 1 line.
That would fall under this:
ThirdRail7 wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:49 pm
You have to look at accessibility and parking, which takes real estate. That is another factor. It would be quite expensive to build a station on your own in NYC and you're bound to run into opposition. As a provider of intercity service, you'd have to plan carefully. That alone would limit the Empire Connection since a significant portion of it is underground and a fair portion of the rest of it is on a viaduct. At that point, you're almost in YNY, which is served by Amtrak.
When the Empire Connection emerges from the Riverside Overbuild at 123st, it is sandwiched between a major highway, which is hugging a wide river on one side and a major thoroughfare which is hugging a cliff on the other side. Then, it promptly crosses the aforementioned viaduct.

If they are already on the 1 train, they may as well head to Penn.