SEPTA NPT card will be "SEPTA Key"?

[ryan92084]

Everyone:

SEPTA has posted a list of RRD stations that are going to sell the Key replacing legacy passes:

http://www.septa.org/key/updates/9-19-r ... tions.html

This program is being implemented on a gradual basis - the dates mentioned are September 19 (19
stations initially) along with 10 more stations added on October 4, 2019.

Will the Agents/Clerks be equipped with ticket office machines that will allow encoding of Key cards
including refills alongside new Key card sales?

Is SEPTA going through with the conversion of the Anywhere and Zone 3 monthly passes beginning
with the October 2019 sales? Are there any Legacy Anywhere and Zone 3 passes still available at
any stations outside of CCP?

October and November 2019 are going to be interesting months ahead for RRD with this conversion
program...Is the SEPTA Key finally ready? MACTRAXX

Yes the outlying stations will be doing refills and new. I'm told setting up a new card is fairly time consuming also several of the stations haven't been stocked with new cards yet despite having the machines for weeks. Their statements about parking permit requiring legacy passes are still at odds with what the agents are told to do.

All outlying stations are still selling paper/legacy passes to the best of my knowledge but I haven't been to a key terminal station yet.

Unannounced change fare credits for on board cash fares are gone as of September 30th

[rcthompson04]

Yes the outlying stations will be doing refills and new. I'm told setting up a new card is fairly time consuming also several of the stations haven't been stocked with new cards yet despite having the machines for weeks. Their statements about parking permit requiring legacy passes are still at odds with what the agents are told to do.

Are you referring to setting up the machines or buying a Key card? It took me less than a minute a year ago.

[ryan92084]

Yes the outlying stations will be doing refills and new. I'm told setting up a new card is fairly time consuming also several of the stations haven't been stocked with new cards yet despite having the machines for weeks. Their statements about parking permit requiring legacy passes are still at odds with what the agents are told to do.

Are you referring to setting up the machines or buying a Key card? It took me less than a minute a year ago.

Buying a new key from an agent using the new machines at outlying rail stations. They aren't in use elsewhere afaik but I still haven't experienced them. The large kiosks do indeed spit them right out as long as you know what you are doing.

[JeffersonLeeEng]

My big complaint about the kiosks is that not every one is programmed the same. You want a trailpass (weekly or monthly)? You have to actually go to a working machine at one of the three center city rail stations.

The way the agency keeps touting the key as a "one size fits all" card is pretty much anathema to real-world (im)practicalities and hurdles that this NPT system keeps throwing at the actual fare-paying riders. It's taking until (near) 2020 for "Travel Wallet" to be activated for regional rail usage and any sort of simplification or positive usage change rules are few and far between.

At this rate, I'm waiting for the *NEW* New Payment Technology that's coming after this...

[NorthPennLimited]

A recent article in the Philadelphia Inquirer noted the cost of implementing SEPTA Key has hit $200 million.

Assuming a passenger pays the highest fare per one-way trip ($10 for a one way trip to NJ), it will take at least 20 million passenger trips just to break even for the cost of designing and building a custom system like SEPTA Key.

That’s a staggering number when you think of it in terms of return on investment.

[JeffK]

It’s far worse than that. SEPTA doesn’t make a profit on its operations, ergo they'd have to add MORE riders, then consider the marginal revenue gain after subtracting the cost of carrying them ... assuming no new service would be required. Ugh!

Plus at least so far there’s zero evidence that the Key's produced any operational savings - and instead may have actually increased costs and decreased revenue. If I remember freshman econ, that’s something called negative productivity

[rdgrailfan]

The article was very interesting.
Hinted at the the "lost" revenue impact, they are still in a struggle with this point
Equipment failures that should have been caught in testing, Battery life was the identified point.Hand held readers also have a memory override "feature" that wipes out early captured data in favor of new data
Noted that a crush of card expiration's will take place early in 2020.
indicated what we all knew about inability to accept "bank codes" for credit cards,slight hint that they may just accept credit cards as a form of payment.

Wonder if this will impact any planned bonus dollars for the implementation team

[MichaelBug]

My big complaint about the kiosks is that not every one is programmed the same. You want a trailpass (weekly or monthly)? You have to actually go to a working machine at one of the three center city rail stations.

The way the agency keeps touting the key as a "one size fits all" card is pretty much anathema to real-world (im)practicalities and hurdles that this NPT system keeps throwing at the actual fare-paying riders. It's taking until (near) 2020 for "Travel Wallet" to be activated for regional rail usage and any sort of simplification or positive usage change rules are few and far between.

At this rate, I'm waiting for the *NEW* New Payment Technology that's coming after this...

At least at one non-Regional Rail Key Card kiosk (Drexel Hill Junction on the 101/102 trolleys), you can extend a valid TrailPass, loaded on a Key, for a week or month, with the same pass type. But, a few weeks ago, I did not have a valid TrailPass loaded onto my Key for that week (I had been in Cleveland that week). When I returned home, I went to that same kiosk. It would let me add a TransPass, but not a TrailPass-because none was loaded onto my Key at that time. That is just silly.

[JeffK]

Equipment failures that should have been caught in testing, Battery life was the identified point.Hand held readers also have a memory override "feature" that wipes out early captured data in favor of new data.

That's insane. For a few bucks you can carry weeks of data-heavy music in your pocket. Do the readers have floppy drives? /snark

indicated what we all knew about inability to accept "bank codes" for credit cards, slight hint that they may just accept credit cards as a form of payment.

Last I heard, cards will ...e v e n t u a l l y... be accepted but users will be charged the cash rate instead of the Key rate, contrary to earlier information. Maybe to help make up for all that other lost revenue??

Wonder if this will impact any planned bonus dollars for the implementation team

[NorthPennLimited]

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a source of frustration or guilt; an encumbrance (in allusion to Coleridge's The Rime of the Ancient Mariner).
"an albatross of a marriage"

check out this news article from 9 years ago

SEPTA applies to TIGER II grant program for smart card

ByAnthony CampisiAugust 25, 2010

SEPTA submitted an application Monday to try to get federal stimulus money to help pay for part of the new smart card system.

As previously reported (http://planphilly.com/septa-4),

SEPTA is seeking $29.3 million from the TIGER II program that would help pay for the installation of the system on buses, trolleys, trackless trolleys and the Norristown High Speed Line.

Local funds would cover the rest of the $77.3 million project, which would also pay for building the system architecture that would support a smart card system.

SEPTA spokesman Andrew Busch said the exact way SEPTA would come up with the matching funds hasn’t been determined yet and said that might be determined through the process of awarding a contract.

The authority has expressed an interest in creative financing to pay for the smart card project and has asked potential bidders to explore that option.

Of the TIGER money, $16 million would also pay for on-board equipment on buses, upgrades to subway turnstiles and for the purchase of on-board fare validators for regional rail.

The application projects SEPTA would save $17.2 million in operating and maintenance costs by rolling out smart cards along those modes of transit and would save area car owners $23.6 million in ownership, gas and maintenance costs.

If the federal government accepts the proposal, SEPTA plans on issuing a notice to proceed on installing this part of the system on Dec. 9, with the system going fully operational March 1, 2013.

Busch said that other modes of transit would be added to the system as funding for them is secured.

TIGER is “the key to getting us moving with this” project given the current funding crunch, he added.

Though SEPTA is in for some tough competition in winning a piece of the $700 million TIGER pie, its application has garnered strong support from elected officials and transit stakeholders.
SEPTA submitted letters of support from groups including the city, the Delaware Valley Regional Planning Commission, PenTrans, the Clean Air Council and members of the region’s congressional delegation.

Contact the reporter at acampisi@planphilly,com

[ryan92084]

They've significantly cut back distribution of some weeklies to certain stations for next week. Expect fun on Monday morning.

[octr202]

If I may interrupt the discussion with some practical questions for a visitor who will be in town later this week...I've tried reading the info SEPTA has online about which fares are available where, and decided I should probably just come here first.

From what I can see, all transit side fares (pay by ride) are now Key (as they were last time I was here), but now also both Convenience and Independence passes are Key-only? Are these available from any FVM, or do I need to seek out certain locations to buy? (We'll be based in Center City, so each day's travel will start from that end, which hopefully simplifies purchasing.)

For regional rail, since we won't need monthly or weekly passes, are these options correct?

-Independence Pass - needed on Key card if also using transit that day. Key card Ind. Pass is good on RRD?
-single-ride tickets - Are these still sold at the CCT station ticket windows, or via Key FVMs? Also, are "regional rail quick trip" tickets valid in both directions, or only from Center City (i.e., if doing a round trip out to suburban destination and return, can I buy both tickets in advance from a FVM, or the ticket windows?

Thanks in advance!

[ryan92084]

Current rumor is SEPTA is trying to go full key and drop all other fares sometime in January. How they expect to pull this off when regional rail travel wallet and cross counties still aren't running is beyond me.

-Independence Pass - needed on Key card if also using transit that day. Key card Ind. Pass is good on RRD?
-single-ride tickets - Are these still sold at the CCT station ticket windows, or via Key FVMs? Also, are "regional rail quick trip" tickets valid in both directions, or only from Center City (i.e., if doing a round trip out to suburban destination and return, can I buy both tickets in advance from a FVM, or the ticket windows?

Thanks in advance!

Independence passes should be available from the window or via key but not onboard. Single rides can be done at the window or with cash onboard (slight upcharge) but can not be done with the key yet.

I don't deal with quick trips so I can't comment there

[mcgrath618]

Quick trips are currently only valid if you're traveling out of Center City UNLESS you are on the Airport Line.

[octr202]

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

One follow up - so are traditional paper RRD tickets still sold at the ticket windows in Center City? I got confused into thinking that only Quick-trips are available at the CCT stations, making it hard to buy tickets for the return trip (in my case, going back inbound from a suburban station) in advance.