Amtrak Diner and Food Service Discussion

[JoeG]

If Amtrak were really interested in what actual or potential customers might think, they could hire a company that does focus groups, etc. For my part, the declining quality of dining car food would probably make me pass it up if I weren't in a sleeper where diner meals was included.

I was surprised that the Silver Star did so well when it eliminated the diner and reduced sleeper prices. To me the diner is a high point of a train trip.But I figure if their lousy food and inconsistent service affects me, a few decades too old to be a millennial, it also affects many other customers.

[superstar]

What do you do , go through and ask all the coach passengers why they aren't in sleeper , or why they are not using the Diner.

I'm poor. Survey over.

[Tadman]

I find it interesting that the millenial generation is suddenly to blame for this. I don't identify as one, but I'm on the threshold.

But if one considers that the "greatest generation", IE my grandparents, wholesale abandoned the railroads for the interstate; then the boomers (IE my parents) never rode trains ever ("ew trains are gross"), and then the Gen X (me?) and millenials (maybe me?) start coming back, we're to blame?

That's like saying millenials are to blame for letting the dinosaurs out of Jurrasic Park after they've been extinct for 1m years.

The culture of the dining car, and train riding in general, skipped a few generations. When things are not handed down over generations, they get forgotten. My generation was brought up going to restaurants and using our own table, and it was rude to get in on another family's table space across the restaurant. We were literally trained not to dine with strangers after school cafeterias. Even there, you dined with your friends and avoided others.

This was recognized in the recent order with CAF for Caledonian Sleeper cars, they ordered half booths and half bar in order to let people dine in their own space.

I don't know that there's an answer to the dining car issue here, just recognition of cultural norms.

[mtuandrew]

Tad is entirely correct there, in my opinion. And regardless of whether “millennials killed communal seating in the traditional dining car”, no one wants to buy a meal then have to eat it at their seat.

I'm poor. Survey over.

Winner, winner, ramen dinner (and I’m right there with you)

[bostontrainguy]

Tad is entirely correct there, in my opinion. And regardless of whether “millennials killed communal seating in the traditional dining car”, no one wants to buy a meal then have to eat it at their seat.

I think it's borderline gross to have a stranger eating his dinner next to me or have a stranger watch me eat. And depending on the meal, the smell might be rather off-putting too. Just not that pleasant an experience in my opinion.

[Arlington]

" no one wants to buy a meal then have to eat it at their seat."

^ Truly Absurd.

For about as long as humans have walked upright they've been carrying meals to their seats.

Further, I am fairly sure that before the invention of the laptop, the tray table was used for food.

I'd say that more than 80% of Cafe meals on a Northeast corridor train are carried back to the passenger seat, particularly when groups travel, one watches "their stuff" and someone fetches food.

Even better, when the train dwells for a long-scheduled hold Northbound at Washington Union Station you can get off grab McDonald's hot food and cold milkshakes and get back on the train.

[Rockingham Racer]

Tad is entirely correct there, in my opinion. And regardless of whether “millennials killed communal seating in the traditional dining car”, no one wants to buy a meal then have to eat it at their seat.

I think it's borderline gross to have a stranger eating his dinner next to me or have a stranger watch me eat. And depending on the meal, the smell might be rather off putting too. Just not that pleasant an experience in my opinion.

Apparently, you don't fly. Your neighbor is just as close embibing and ingesting as s/he would be in an Amtrak dining car. And have you ever eaten in some Manhattan or other large city restaurants? Side by side tables, a chair on the aisle, and a long bench on the other side of the table. My point is: close quarters in the dining area is not just an Amtrak scenario.

[bostontrainguy]

Tad is entirely correct there, in my opinion. And regardless of whether “millennials killed communal seating in the traditional dining car”, no one wants to buy a meal then have to eat it at their seat.

I think it's borderline gross to have a stranger eating his dinner next to me or have a stranger watch me eat. And depending on the meal, the smell might be rather off putting too. Just not that pleasant an experience in my opinion.

Apparently, you don't fly. Your neighbor is just as close embibing and ingesting as s/he would be in an Amtrak dining car. And have you ever eaten in some Manhattan or other large city restaurants? Side by side tables, a chair on the aisle, and a long bench on the other side of the table. My point is: close quarters in the dining area is not just an Amtrak scenario.

No I fly and I considered this prior to posting. On an airline the "meal" is usually a bag of pretzels and a can of soda or cup of coffee all served at the same time so you and your seatmates are all eating the same thing at the same time.

I don't think that is the same as someone eating shrimp and grits next to someone else who may not be hungry or is not feeling well or can't afford the fancier food. And how much of that food and crumbs are going to get on the seats or between the seat cushions?

Just not a pleasant experience to me. That's all. Only my opinion. I prefer sitting at a clean roomy table to eat.

[Arlington]

On the airlines, you don't have to sit eye-to-eye with a stranger, and you don't have to look at that strangers plate just beyond the field of your own.

Part of increasing wealth standard of living has been increasing expectations of privacy and control of one's personal space, and not being "forced" to socialize.

We had communal showers in camp/middle school, now they have stalls and curtains (and there's little nostalgia for the communal model)

But the point remains: you can't categorically say "nobody wants to carry their food" and you can't categorically say that "people love communal dining"

Given the mix of preferences, and that carrying food back to your seat allows Amtrak to decrease the expense of food and decrease the cost (in staff and floorplate) to deliver it, you're not going to win a debate where you try to prove that communal tables were "worth it" or "net value enhancing"

[Matt Johnson]

I feel like the flexible dining thing is a worthy debate, but is being used as a diversion/scapegoat. Must I really give up my omelette or french toast with a side order of freshly cooked bacon for a 7 Eleven quality reheated breakfast sandwich in order to have flexible dining options?

[Arlington]

^ You must give up an onboard cook (because wages, benefits, workspace and dorm(?)) in favor of mostly-commissary prep and mostly-reheat onboard delivery.

[Gilbert B Norman]

Really volks, if Amtrak can put on the table (room or Lounge as case may be) same quality of food as found in Business on overseas flights, then I think the grousing can end.

Mr. Anderson came to Amtrak from an airline with cabin service the best of the "Big Three" forward (and aft) of the curtain. If Amtrak can emulate what I have been served on United Polaris flying overseas - and Delta One is considered superior, then I think even the "experiential" trade will be hard pressed to complain.

[electricron]

The major difficulties I have eating in my seat is the size of the fold down tray in front of the seat, there is barely room for one small plate and drink’s glass or cup. There is not room for several plates or bowls at once; salad, main meal, and desert. Even on airlines, the first class stewardess does not try to fit everything on that little tray at once. Worse yet, that same little tray/table in a sleeper room or roomette is not large enough for double occupancy meal servings. That is probably why they are trying to fit every course into one plate!

While I understand why so many dislike “forced” socializing at the dinner table, it was a compromise to sit as many as possible at the relatively small number of tables. Can you imagine the inefficiency of a single sleeper passengers using an entire table sized to fit four?

Never-the-less, there are fewer and fewer places on an Amtrak train to socialize at all. There used to be lounges, smoking and smoke free, where you could socialize voluntary. Four playing Bridge overnight at a cafe table, someone breaking out a guitar in the smoking lounge, watching a movie in the observation lounge, etc. Today the tables are full of people trying to surf the web on their laptops, notepads, and phones. No one seems to want to share their trip with anyone else. That’s what is wrong with public transit today, and why airlines and Amtrak treats us as cattle squeezing as many of us as possible into the smallest possible space. I hope that Amtrak will not scrap their Superliner sightseer lounge cars anytime soon, because that is just about the only place left to socialize on their trains anymore.

[Tadman]

I get that at-seat dining isn't the best. But I'd rather eat on a small tray at-seat and stare at the fabric in front of me than be forced to roll the dice and eat with some strangers. And the commentary about standard of living going up because of increased privacy is true. There's a reason the CEO dines alone with a few other bosses while the rank and file eat in a cafeteria.

That's not to say I haven't had some nice people across from me, but I've had quite a lot of weirdos, too.

I already eat in my roomette half the time with carry-on. I'm good with this.

[ExCon90]

While I understand why so many dislike “forced” socializing at the dinner table, it was a compromise to sit as many as possible at the relatively small number of tables. Can you imagine the inefficiency of a single sleeper passengers using an entire table sized to fit four?

... and imagine the ambiance of standing in line in the corridor next to the kitchen while there are empty seats at the tables. Most of my traveling years were spent when "communal seating" was the norm, and people generally took it for granted and didn't fret about it. As others have noted, you encountered all kinds, and if you were stuck with a bore, just tune out as if it were a TV commercial. The only problem for me was the risk of failing to see a junction or an opposing train while en route to and from the diner. (If only the SPV atlases had existed in those days ...)