Amtrak considers extending Wolverine line from Chicago to Toronto via (VIA?) Detroit

[JimBoylan]

Passengers on the Adirondack are not required to get off the train at the U.S. border, nor were passengers on the Maple Leaf until the recent new station was opened. Customs does what Customs wants without any uniformity.
When the International was last running, it backed in or out of the Port Huron station located on the approach to the old abandoned tunnel without much problem, and without blocking traffic on the main track to the new tunnel or requiring construction of a new siding.

[AgentSkelly]

I remember not too ago, I inquired to one of my acquaintances at US CBP about this.

Basically, it’s trying to simply staffing operations; the Maple Leaf used a mobile field inspection team that came up from the Peace Bridge that was basically in an overtime window; they were using for quite some time for training purposes which helped a lot. A fixed port of entry station is better staffed and operates much faster as I was told; I believe that having crossed the border on all modes.

Now on the Canadian side, CBSA will go where you ask them, however any new “private” port of entry requires all costs to be paid by the owner. This was an issue with the Cascades on the 2nd VAC run due to a technically of Pacific Central Station’s ownership, it was resolved thankfully. Basically, it’s owned by the City of Vancouver as a for profit entity, which did qualify as private, but upon further talks, CBSA waived it.

[mdvle]

In 1975, I traveled from Helsinki to Moscow by train, and then, approximately two weeks later, from Leningrad (as it was then called) back to Helsinki. If the notoriously paranoid Soviet pogranichniki didn't make us get off the train for customs inspections, why does U.S. customs have to do so?

A lot has changed in the intervening 44 years, and some of it may have validity and some won't, but the basic understanding from various posts recently is that any new service needs to be done on a pre-clearance basis with the Maple Leaf essentially being grand-fathered in as an exception, with the apparent hassle of forcing passengers off the train.

In an era where border officials insist on being armed the idea of dealing with people in the constrained space of a train coach likely doesn't appeal for safety reasons, and it presumably is more difficult to ensure nothing is being "hidden" when luggage isn't readily accessible on board. More cynically, it is also likely more difficult to use things like facial recognition without forcing everyone out onto a standardized, well lit, environment.

Which isn't to say that it all makes sense, but rather that VIA / Amtrak have to deal with what the border people on both sides of the border want.

[Matt Johnson]

Amtrak considers extending Wolverine line from Chicago to Toronto

Which safety regulations is Amtrak subject to in Canadian territory? Forget about PTC...VIA Rail runs trains at 95 mph on the Windsor - Toronto corridor without even cab signals!

ADMIN: updated title

[rcthompson04]

Amtrak considers extending Wolverine line from Chicago to Toronto

Which safety regulations is Amtrak subject to in Canadian territory? Forget about PTC...VIA Rail runs trains at 95 mph on the Windsor - Toronto corridor without even cab signals!

What are the rules on the Maple Leaf since it operates with an Amtrak crew in the US and a VIA crew in Canada?

[Matt Johnson]

Amtrak considers extending Wolverine line from Chicago to Toronto

Which safety regulations is Amtrak subject to in Canadian territory? Forget about PTC...VIA Rail runs trains at 95 mph on the Windsor - Toronto corridor without even cab signals!

What are the rules on the Maple Leaf since it operates with an Amtrak crew in the US and a VIA crew in Canada?

That's a good question. As far as I know, the Adirondack, Maple Leaf, and Cascades trains are running PTC-free on the Canadian portions of their journeys, so I assume they're exempted on that. But none of them operate at greater than 79 mph. Would Amtrak equipment be permitted to run at 95 mph without cab signals in Canada? It would be logical, but the law doesn't always follow logic (see the proposal to put people on dangerous highways in buses to avoid much safer non-PTC railroad on the Southwest Chief route).

[Tadman]

The leaf is a Via train in Canada, and thus subject to Canadian regs and CN & Via policy when in Canada. The Cascade and Adirondack are Amtrak trains on trackage rights in Canada, subject to Amtrak & CN policy and Canadian regs.

It would be hard for the FRA to require use of PTC in Canada, but that doesn't mean Amtrak couldn't make a rule that all trains, Canada or not, have to be on PTC. I believe that was one of the grey areas when Anderson threatened to stop running any trains that weren't on PTC by end of 2018.

[gokeefe]

Take another look at the slide in the linked article. It's an interline service proposal. The train will be operated by VIA inside Canada.

[njtmnrrbuff]

Similar to the Maple Leaf being operated by VIA Rail once it crosses into Canada, the proposal is to have the Canadian Wolverine operate as VIA Rail once it gets to Windsor. The Maple Leaf does at least 90 in Canada.

[gokeefe]

Agreed. That's my take as well. Which in this case means no Amtrak PTC requirements past the border.

[Arlington]

This has great market potential.

[Backshophoss]

What was done for the "International" when it ran and is done with the "Maple Leaf" now,Crew change at the border(T&E,OBS),
then operated as a VIA Rail train in Canada.
See a problem of getting a slot thru the tunnel,due to HEAVY Automotive freight traffic,and a possible need to upgrade
Emergency Exits and systems for passengers,on Amtrak's and VIA's Dime.
Remember This tunnel is privately owned, EVERYBODY PAYS!!

Don't See Via springing for a new station in Windsor,or a reroute to the current station on industry/abandoned trackage
from the east end of the tunnel

[NS VIA FAN]

The Maple Leaf has always used Amtrak equipment but it does become a VIA operated train in Canada with VIA crews and the food items are changed out in the Café…..Coke in Canada and Pepsi in the US!!

The International was different. Both Amtrak and VIA provided the equipment. You could even find VIA LRC locomotives and cars in Chicago. Below is the International at Port Huron in Jan 1983…..an Amtrak F40 with VIA ‘Tempo’ equipment. In later years it was usually Amtrak power with Superliners. On that trip in Jan ’83…..the VIA crew took the train across the border and changed with Amtrak in Port Huron.

[mtuandrew]

How did they handle the different car power supply systems ie dual HEP feed on VIA equipment?

[JimBoylan]

How did they handle the different car power supply systems ie dual HEP feed on VIA equipment?

One way was to use the few Light Rapid Comfortable locomotives that had been tested on Amtrak years earlier, and returned to Via still equipped for U.S.A. Head End Power.
At one time, the Via engineer on the Maple Leaf had to break a seal on some switch that prevented the Amtrak Diesel from exceeding 79 m.p.h. with cab signals cut out.