• Biometric Timeclocks are coming

  • Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.
Discussion of the past and present operations of the Long Island Rail Road.

Moderator: Liquidcamphor

  by Liquidcamphor
Boys let's keep the insults for private messages. Stay on topic so that the Admins don't delete or lock this thread.
  by ADL6009
Most likely there will be some type of compromise where as a NY crew that gets instructed to operate a late night train to Ronkonkoma will not have to physically sit on a train back to penn station at 6am just to press a button on a timeclock. That serves no one, it doesnt save the taxpayer any money, it doesnt provide any value to the railroad and it doesnt benefit the employee. Lose-lose-lose. All it would accomplish is to create more fatigue among train service employees, which i always thought was a bad thing? Did we forget about safety???? Its not acceptable to completely change the course of business and totally upend peoples lives for no other reason than "it looks good".
It seems the people that are advocating for that are just doing so out of spite and pettiness.
If the RR is so opposed to people getting paid to DH to a home terminal then why do so many jobs in the crew book not start and finish at the same place? Do the employees write the crew book?

Ive heard that we will most likely get a system that would require us to bio metrically "punch" a timeclock at least once per day verifying that we are indeed on the property. Thus satisfying any concerns that employees are staying home all day and getting paid. But no, you will not be required to dead head 4 hours back to your "home terminal" to punch out and then dead head 3 hours to get to your bed. And then wake up 2 hours later to do it all over again.
Also, whats the difference between sleeping on your dead head vs sleeping in your bed???
Sleep is sleep.

Also you will need to create another department to monitor everyones punching in and out. More wasted $$$$.
Train service already has TIMACS to verify our off times when dead heading back to a home terminal so the fraud prevention aspect is a moot point, as there is no fraud. Like i said, its just a new policy being promoted out of spite and jealousy. Not exactly a great way to manage your workforce. But apparently managers like Datenail already think there employees are dishonest thieves who need to be punished. Its no wonder the RR is in the mess its in.
  by Steamboat Willie
I think this upcoming “scanning” might have the biggest influence with conductor flags and yard crews with T&E. At least on MN, all of the rolling stock have cameras and they are already required to “sign in” at a computer terminal.

ADL, out of all the years they report earnings this is by far the worst. It has the attention of the public and politicians and is ushering in some sweeping changes. An investigation with the potential that it may eclipse that of the Disability Fraud we saw in 2008.

I don’t think this should be taken lightly.
  by Datenail
ADL says that the mta is screwed up. Because if what ADL is saying is true then punching in once a day wont prove anything. Ive head something like this and some of our employees claiming that they will punch in and then leave. It wouldnt do anything to stop employees from leaving early or stepping off trains enroute and going home. We'll see what really happens. I think it will be more because this issue is too hot.To answer our colleague ADL's question about starting and finishing in the same place. In Planning we researched that for some runs, it would cost more to have them run trains back to their start terminal rather than deadhead. Quite often, runs are coupled with equipment manipulations. Its more cost effective to have one crew take a revenue train to a location and leave it, then deadhead back. Or else the crew taking it back would require another crew to bring it out for service later on. Traffic constraints also are considered. If most service is east, then sending a train west would overburden a system at capacity. Give us more credit ADL because theres more to running a railroad than what you see collection tickets.
  by ADL6009
Datenail wrote:ADL says that the mta is screwed up....
I’m not the only one....
  by ADL6009
Datenail wrote:Because if what ADL is saying is true then punching in once a day wont prove anything
You are rIght, it won’t prove anything. But....Then the MTA will be able to put out a press release saying that all employees are biometrically punching time clocks and that they are reducing fraud and waste. Remember, it’s not about cost or effectiveness. It’s about looking good. And that will look really good
  by ADL6009
How soon do you think it will be until the MTA demands to implant GPS monitoring devices directly into our body? I mean they are paying us right? They need to be able to constantly monitor where we are at all times to make sure they are getting their monies worth for us.
  by SwingMan
Datenail wrote: Give us more credit ADL because theres more to running a railroad than what you see collection tickets.
If you just made these West End jobs where you ultimately have to DH back into East End jobs where the vast majority of the workforce actually lives, then you would only have to worry about making sure these crews get back to said terminal at the end of the night. This is very hard to see in a current crew book due to a west end heavy setup because, of course, the biggest yard is the farthest west of any location on the property.

Just how west end heavy is the railroad? Lets compare West Side Yard jobs vs. KO based jobs:

West Side Yard - 39 jobs
KO Yrd - 14 jobs

So basically a 2:1 ratio for West Side Yard jobs to KO Yard jobs.

Now looking at West End MU jobs (anything that starts in the 5 Boroughs) vs. Middle (Nassau County) vs. East End Jobs (Suffolk). 180 jobs in this sample:

West End - 107 jobs (59.44%)
Mid End - 26 jobs (14.44%)
East End - 47 jobs (26.11%)

Just as a small sample of where people live from the CO roster, here are 20 people and where they live geographically:
Suffolk - 9 (45%)
Nassau - 7 (35%)
West - 4 (20%)

There are jobs that make no sense for anyone involved, West Enders or East Enders. Very simple tweaks would save the railroad the cost of paying additional overtime, but in return creating better more efficient jobs for the majority of the employees. There should not be jobs that finish in a western terminal with no legal train for people that live east to return on period. You would eliminate that while also boosting moral and performance.

This place is very hard to run, understood, no one said it wasn't. However, you can't win the moral of the people that move the trains by taking more and giving little. It is a balance that the current levels of management need to step back and realize.
  by Datenail
Swingman, your stats and anger should be directed at the railroad not me. I am not recommending or a proponent of deadheading to NY at 1:00AM to punch out. If you read my postings, nothing I said recommends or insists that we do anything about deadheading back. What I did say was that if the unions fight this too hard they may find that their arguments are nullified by a court because its the union agreements that require salary to and from the initial terminal. That can happen and i really dont think what some hot headed forum members say here matters. Instead of outright rejecting this program why not work with the company on a blend of both. Why not suggest something like punching in at your initial terminal and maybe at your the last terminus of your final train? You might end up with more OT because you'll need time to get to the clock and may miss your deadhead back to your home terminal that is in the crew book. Our scheduling for crews is a blend of passenger needs, equipment requirements and the agreements. So dont take the crew book as it is now and say its impractical or impossible to change. But be aware that your unions do not have the strength they once did and you have a hostile Governor. So you'll find no help with him. YOur worst enemy are that people who have no idea about the Rail Road and the operation making recommendations or demands to the Rail Road for changes. I doubt this will happen but the worst case scenario is that the Rail Road simply make changes to force your hand, such as abrogate certain jobs for home terminal. Your union will insist its a major violation of the Railway Labor Act and call it strikeable. A court will claim its a minor issue (they will even if its not) and then you lose control of the situation because it will end up in arbitration or the courts. IF this bothers some members on here then write to your legislator and insist you be paid back to your terminal, but dont want to go because you might be tired. See how far that goes.
  by ADL6009
Whats the worst thing that could happen from having tired operating employees? Its not like anyone ever fell asleep while operating a train and caused an accident
  by 452 Card
I'm outta here.
  by SwingMan
I was only directing what you were saying from your quote, Datenail. That there is more to running a railroad than what is seen by someone punching tickets.

I am talking tweaks that doesn't require equipment manipulation changes, crews required, etc. It is just where the crews begin (and end) their tour of duty. There is no need to go deep into union agreements and all this nonsense, it's simply taking what is there now and creating more balance of where you want the Home Terminal of the manpower to be from what is currently in the crew book.
  by Datenail
Swingman, now take your tweaks and factor in equipment inspection cycles and maintenance. Its easier to dismantle a train in WSY where there are around the clock drill crews and send the equipment to a heavy maintenance facility like Hillside shops/Morris Park/Sheridan Shop. This is why the equipment coordinator is located in the same office as the Movement Bureau. Its not just overtime to train crews, its M. of E. staffing and capabilities, location of facilities capable of performing different functions, drill crews on duty to minimize agreement penalties, traffic loads and staging equipment for different requirements. What you may see in the middle of the night, such as leaving a train out east and deadheading back is a blend of union agreements, and decisions made for events that will occur long after you are off duty. It could be something as mundane as leaving a train out east, because in the morning it will end up in WSY where it will be broken up and the roustabout may take it to HSY. But it can only be taken to HSY at a specific time of day due to track work, traffic loads, room in HSY, etc. This is why i said that there is more to the operation than customer service on the train and has nothing to do with employee accommodation.
  by Steamboat Willie
So an internal email by A.M. from MTAHQ was sent out today pertaining to this upcoming scanning, along with some basic Q&A. In all my years of working for the railroad, I have never seen such swift change such as this. T&E labor have yet to agree to anything yet, however the railroad has installed biometric scanning stations at all terminals where crews report for duty. Is there any word on the LIRR where they stand with all of this?
  by Datenail
Someone wrote this a few posts back
Just a heads up, a lot of things that Datenail says are “definitely going to happen” usually don’t happen.
I said its happening and its going to happen. And involve all employees. Details to soon be released as to where and when employees need to punch in. As I said some of the unions plan on refusing to use the time clock which is exactly what the carriers want so that it will end up in court. I would suggest working out something with the carriers to implement this system without leaving yourselves open to a judge to interpret your contract.