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Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
 #1031013  by timz
 
Weekday departures from Jersey City in the August 1883 empl TT:

11 NYS&W to Marion

10 NYWS&B to Marion-- when did West Shore move to Weehawken?

4 to Waverly

11 to Rahway

5 to Perth Amboy

8 to NY&LB

6 Lehigh Valley to Metuchen

5 to New Brunswick

1 to East Millstone

1 to Rocky Hill

3 to Trenton

1 "Fast Freight" to Mantua, presumably no passengers tho it doesn't say so

And 22 trains to Broad St Philadelphia, including a mail-express that says no passengers and another mail-express that shows no passenger stops. That includes all trains destined beyond Philadelphia.

Fastest train to Broad St was the 1608 departure that took 112 minutes including stops at Trenton, Germantown Jct and Powelton Ave. The 0910 Chicago express ran nonstop Jersey City to Broad St but took 120 minutes; it was the only nonstop. It passed the 0840 departure west of Monmouth Jct, where the latter was to be on the "fourth track"; the timetable doesn't show how much four-track railroad there was, but few trains got passed anywhere.

Presumably the times are not EST, but no indication whether they're NY time or Philadelphia.
 #1031396  by ExCon90
 
As far as I know the PRR operated on Philadelphia time from New York to Pittsburgh. The fact that trains from New York arrived in Pittsburgh on Philadelphia time and left for the west on Columbus time was one of many instances that drove people up the wall and led to the adoption by the railroads of the four Standard Time zones on November 18, 1883. Based on the date of your timetable, it may have been the last one to be issued on "railroad time." It sounds like a real treasure -- keep in a safe place. And thanks for posting the info.
 #1031413  by timz
 
PFtW&C ran on Columbus time?

Forgot to note that the trains I said ran to New Brunswick actually ran to Millstone Jct, as you'd expect. And some stopped at Suydam St.
 #1031714  by ExCon90
 
timz wrote:PFtW&C ran on Columbus time?

Forgot to note that the trains I said ran to New Brunswick actually ran to Millstone Jct, as you'd expect. And some stopped at Suydam St.
I've wondered about this for a long time. The PFtW&C, Lake Shore & Michigan Southern, Marietta & Cincinnati, Wheeling & Lake Erie, Pittsburgh & Lake Erie, and Grand Rapids & Indiana (!) all ran on Columbus time, even though none of them went through Columbus, and the GR&I didn't even operate in Ohio. It seems possible, though I haven't been able to confirm or deny it, that there might have been an Ohio state law requiring all railroads in the state to operate on Columbus time. (The GR&I might have done so because its east-west connections used it.) The LS&MS helpfully showed city time as well as well as railroad time for Chicago and Buffalo, noting that Columbus time was 20 minutes faster than Chicago time and 15 minutes slower than Buffalo time. Then, in checking something else just the other day, I discovered that the St. Louis & San Francisco operated from Springfield to St. Louis on Jefferson City time. Did Missouri have something similar?
 #1031756  by timz
 
Most RRs in the 1870 Off Guide don't specify what time they use, but LS&MS does, sort of: they say their standard is their clock at Cleveland. They don't say whether that clock shows Cleveland time.

I'm going to the library to check 1880s Off Guides-- I'm hoping by then more RRs spelled out their times.
 #1032058  by ExCon90
 
I knew I'd seen that somewhere but couldn't find it in the 1883 Guide; I think the 1870 Guide was where I saw it. I think we have to conclude that the Depot Clock in Cleveland showed Columbus time, which would have been a convenience to people catching trains, since that's the time they left on. I think there was either 4 or 6 minutes' difference -- I don't have a Guide handy right now. I wish I could find out whether the use of Columbus time was required by law, and if so whether the law was in effect in 1870; maybe in 1870 the LS&MS used Cleveland time and that's what showed on the clock in Cleveland. The Northern Central is interesting; in 1868 it stated that trains run on the time shown on the clock in the dispatcher's office in Elmira. Since they entered Elmira on trackage rights over the Erie, and the Erie ran on New York time east of Salamanca, that must mean that the road ran on New York time from Baltimore to Elmira (although the unsuspecting passenger might assume that the dispatcher's clock in Elmira showed Elmira time). In 1883 they show running on Philadelphia time from Baltimore to Williamsport and New York time from Williamsport to Elmira. Be sure to post if you find some more oddball things.
 #1034102  by JimBoylan
 
timz wrote:Weekday departures from Jersey City in the August 1883 empl TT:
11 NYS&W to Marion
10 NYWS&B to Marion-- when did West Shore move to Weehawken?
6 Lehigh Valley to Metuchen
Are these the ultimate destinations, or the junctions where they left PRR rails?
Maybe in 1883, the South Penn was intended to use Weehawken, as it was the New York Central's alleged answer to the PRR's alleged support of the New York, West Shore & Buffalo? A good time to change terminals would be after the July 10, 1885 peace treaty arranged on J. Pierpoint Morgan's yacht "Corsair".
 #1034459  by timz
 
Last time shown for NYS&W and NYWS&B departures is Marion; no indication what if anything they did after that.

I guess PRR hadn't yet realigned thru Jersey City-- maybe that's why no stations shown between the ferry and Marion.

Only trains via Centre St stop at East Newark (MP 8.0), but main line trains have a passing time there, so must be at the junction. No other stations east of the Passaic except Meadows and Marion.

Looks like all? NY-area RRs ran on NY time except PRR. NYSW departure times in this PRR empl TT are five minutes earlier than in the NYSW listing in the Official Guide.
 #1034837  by erie2521
 
In the June 1868 Official Guide, the section for the Northern Central states: "Trains are run by Erie Railway time, as shown by the standard clock in the Div. Superintendent's office, Elmira."
 #1035281  by ExCon90
 
JimBoylan wrote:Did N.Y., S. & W. crews have to carry 2 watches while on the PRR?
I've sometimes wondered about that. The joint CNJ-RDG service from Jersey City to Philadelphia operated on New York time JC to Bound Brook and Philadelphia time Bound Brook to Phila. A westbound train arriving at BB at 10.31 am left at 10.28 am, and the fine print at the bottom explained the difference in time. Of course the crews could easily have made the 5-minute conversion themselves, but the individual railroads might have insisted on an officially inspected watch showing their time. I can readily imagine the PRR saying "you operate on our railroad, your watch will show Philadelphia time. You can do what you want on your own line."

As to your question about the West Shore, their listing in an 1883 Guide says that their new terminal in Weehawken is under construction and expected to be open shortly.