Railroad Forums 

Discussion relating to the PRR, up to 1968. Visit the PRR Technical & Historical Society for more information.
 #854574  by chnhrr
 
Last weekend I was passing through Greencastle Pa and stopped by the old station and main line. I later found out that the line belonged to the Cumberland Valley Railroad. This is a system that I know very little about. How did the CVRR interface with the PRR from a corporate standpoint and for everyday railroad operations? I haven’t been able to find many photos of the CVRR’s locomotives and rolling stock. I was also interested to learn that one of the main rail bridges at Harrisburg was built by the CVRR.
 #854928  by chnhrr
 
Yes there is some information out there. Some of it useful, some of it is trivial. I was interested in the insights and thoughts of members. That’s the concept behind a forum. Thanks anyway.
 #855113  by BaltOhio
 
I'm not sure how deep you want to go, but in a crude nutshell, the CV began as an independent local enterprise in the late 1830s, running from Harrisburg to Chambersburg, PA, via Shippensburg and Carlisle; by 1841 -- and originally under independent auspices -- the route was extended to Hagerstown, Md., through Greencastle. In the late 19th century it was extended further from Hagerstown to Winchester, VA via Martinsburg. The CV came under PRR control in 1860, although the Pennsy kept it as a legally separate corporation until it was fully merged in 1919. Although for all practical purposes it was a PRR branch by the time of the Civil War, until the 1919 merger the CV had its own minority stockholders and was locally managed from headquarters in Chambersburg (but with dictates from Philadelphia), and had its own locomotives and rolling stock -- most of which, of course, were built to PRR designs and were numbered in specific number blocks the PRR reserved for CV equipment. The CV had its own shops (which, last I knew, still existed) in Chamberburg. (Also, last I knew, two of the CV's three gerations of stations in Chamberburg still survived.) As originally built, the CV ran down the main streets of such towns as Carlisle, Chambersburg, Shippensburg, and Greencastle, and in the case of Greencastle, the original early 19th century station building still stands. Bypasses and track elevation came in the early 20th century.

The completion of the N&W's Shenandoah Valley RR between Roanoke and Hagerstown in 1882 turned the CV from an essentially local line to an alternate link between the Northeast and South through the Hagerstown gateway. This relationship strengthened after the Pennsy got control of the N&W, particularly as the chief outlet for N&W coal destined for Northeastern points. Now, of course, the CV route is Norfolk Southern's primarily link between its ex-N&W and Southern Ry. lines and its ex-PRR/RDG/LV lines in the Northeast.

The Hagerstown-Winchester segment spent most of its life as a secondary line, although during the Pennsy's control of the B&O in the early 1900s, B&O coal was routed east over the CV through a connection at Martinsburg, and the Martinsburg-Hagerstown section was upgraded. (A later and more convenient connection was built at Cumbo, outside Martinsburg.) This movement continued until 1927, when B&O rerouted the CV coal over its already-established Cherry Run/WM/Shippensburg/RDG route. The Hagerstown-Winchester line survives under Winchester & Western operation.

As an aside, the Cumberland Valley's 1851 4-2-0 "Pioneer," now owned by the Smithsonian, is at the B&O Museum being readied for display there.
 #855337  by chnhrr
 
Thanks BaltOhio for that very comprehensive perspective of CV. How long did CV line serve as secondary passenger route for the PRR to the South (Washington D.C being the primary)? After the full merger in 1919 did any of the CV equipment carry the CV logo, lettering or herald beyond that year? I’ve seen the bridge at Cherry Run W.V. crossing the Potomac. Now I know its intended purpose. It’s also interesting to know that the PRR had a financial stake in the Norfolk & Western. I’ll check out the CV 4-2-0 next time I’m at the B&O museum.
 #855409  by BaltOhio
 
I have to defer answering your questions (to the extent that I know any answers) until I return from a trip to Europe, but as I recall, passenger service on the CV lasted into the 1950s. It never amounted to much -- in 1936, for example, there was one all-stops daytime local between Roanoke and Hagerstown, plus an overnight train that carried a Bluefield-New York sleeper. I don't know when that service ceased, but In the immediate postwar years I recall a Roanoke-Philadelphia sleeper, which I suppose was mostly for the convenience of PRR and N&W executives to get back and forth. I don't think the trains carried any through coaches between the N&W and PRR.

The Pennsy's control of the N&W dated back to the early 1900s, and is part of a larger and more complex story that also included a brief control of the B&O from 1900 to about 1907. The financial interest in the N&W was later strengthened, and in the post-WWII years N&W dividends were a major factor in keeping the Pennsy financially afloat. But the Pennsy had to dispose of this interest as a condition of the Penn Central merger in 1968.

I can't answer the question about post-1919 equipment lettering, but I imagine the change was done as quickly as practical, much as the NYC did in 1936 when it leased the Big Four and Michigan Central.

Norfolk Southern's present north-south mainline route uses the original CV only between Shippensburg and Hagerstown; east of Shippensburg it uses the formerly competitive Reading line. I'm not sure what the present status of the CV line is between Harrisburg (actually Lemoyne) and Shippensburg. As you know, the CV's Susquehanna River bridge is out of service.
 #855804  by chnhrr
 
Thanks BaltOhio again for your in-depth knowledge and historical perspective. I read somewhere that the CV Bridge maybe used again with introduction of a new commuter service. Enjoy your trip to Europe; it’s a good time of the year to go.

Here is a drawing of the CVRR 4-2-0 (circa 1871) mentioned by BaltOhio that will be on display at the B&O museum.
 #862188  by ssw9662
 
The CVRR between Lemoyne and Carlisle is still in service as the NS Shippensburg Secondary. Although no longer a through route, it is used to service several industries; most of which are located around Mechanicsburg. NS also owns a small portion of the line south of Hagerstown to Williamsport, MD (although the Winchester & Western is the primary operator there, NS does switch a couple of industries in Williamsport).
 #863576  by Clearfield
 
The line still included street running through the center of Shippensburg until the 1980's.
 #880997  by DCmetrogreen
 
The CVRR has been ripped out between Shippensburg and just east of PA465/Allen Road in Carlisle. The portion between Shippensburg University of Pennsylvania (actually Shippensburg Township Park just NE of the University) and Newville has been turned into a rail-trail. I believe the rails were removed in 1994.
 #882277  by Clearfield
 
I used to watch the trains go by the crossing at when I lived in the top floor of my college dorm between 1971 and 1974.