Beginning with the Liberty Limited and including a great part of the east/ west blue ribbon fleet. The PRR provided East-West Service from many points through to DC. But I am curious as to the routing. I would have thought that the fastest route would be the first choice and that was not so. Why did the PRR use the Northern Central, with all of the technical problems involved ( reverse running from DC Union Station to Baltimore and street running at very slow speed in York PA) when their freight line on the east bank of the Susquehanna was electrified and did not involve any motor change in Baltimore?
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The Northern Central was the speedier route; it was also double tracked and served York.
IIRC under either PC or Amtrak,for a while they did run trains to/from Harrisburg via the Columbia - Perryville routing.
Bring back the Slumbercoaches!!
I remember that in Amtrak's early days they used the Port Road, after Hurricane Agnes took out the Northern Central, but I believe only for a brief period. It's true that the NC was slow -- permanent speed restrictions were indicated by white rings on the line poles (3 rings meant 30 mph, 4 rings meant 40, etc.), and there were a lot of them. Being double-tracked throughout, it was still better than the Port Road, which was handling a fair amount of freight (the NC saw no freight except locals), and of course it enabled the trains to serve York (which involved some street running in York). Another peculiarity was that NC trains carried odd numbers from DC to Baltimore and even numbers Baltimore to DC; everybody knew that 58-59 (Liberty Limited) and anything in the 400's was opposite to the rest of the traffic.
ExCon90 wrote:I remember that in Amtrak's early days they used the Port Road, after Hurricane Agnes took out the Northern Central, but I believe only for a brief period. It's true that the NC was slow -- permanent speed restrictions were indicated by white rings on the line poles (3 rings meant 30 mph, 4 rings meant 40, etc.), and there were a lot of them. Being double-tracked throughout, it was still better than the Port Road, which was handling a fair amount of freight (the NC saw no freight except locals), and of course it enabled the trains to serve York (which involved some street running in York). Another peculiarity was that NC trains carried odd numbers from DC to Baltimore and even numbers Baltimore to DC; everybody knew that 58-59 (Liberty Limited) and anything in the 400's was opposite to the rest of the traffic.I did not realize that excellent detail that you pointed out regarding the train numbers. Thank you !
Was the NC really faster and more efficient than the Port Road ?
Technically, if looks like a nightmare to me even in 2013 ? AMTRAK might have gotten the service right but perhaps was never allowed to run with it.
It could be that the double track on the NC vs. single track on the Port Road (albeit with Rule 261) made the difference in view of the number of passenger trains "back in the day." If I get a chance I'll dig out an employee TT from around the 60's and see what speeds were in effect.
Had a Senior Moment there in my earliest post: the Harrisburg and Buffalo trains were in the 500 series, not the 400.
ExCon90 wrote:It could be that the double track on the NC vs. single track on the Port Road (albeit with Rule 261) made the difference in view of the number of passenger trains "back in the day." If I get a chance I'll dig out an employee TT from around the 60's and see what speeds were in effect.Mileage from Baltimore to Harrisburg was 83.4 on the Northern Central vs. 109.0 via the Port Road (using the Columbia Branch from Columbia to Royalton), although the 31.3 miles from Bay View to Havre de Grace were good for 80 -- the wye at Perryville was 15 (this from a Chesapeake Region timetable of 1960). In 1960 the Northern Central had a maximum authorized speed of 55 mph from Baltimore to York and 50 to the Region Post (Phila. Region). Between Baltimore and York there were 9 curves restricted to 30 mph and 19 restricted to 40 (hence the white rings on the line poles, something of a departure for the PRR, which normally didn't have wayside markers for permanent speed restrictions); I don't know how much 55-mph running they got in overall. Street running in York was limited to 4 mph. By 1960 the NC was reduced to single track from Glencoe (south of Parkton) to Cly, where the line joined the Atglen & Susquehanna Branch on the west bank of the Susquehanna. The Port Road had a mas of 40 mph, with 5 curves restricted to 30 mph; there were 3 segments of 2 main tracks aggregating 11.4 miles of the 44.0-mile line. All in all, it looks like they just didn't want to mix freight and passenger on the Port Road. If anyone has public timetables going back that far it might be possible to compare running times via the NC just prior to Agnes and via the Port Road during the short period Amtrak used it.
Another point is that using the NC enabled the Washington and New York sections to arrive and depart Harrisburg simultaneously, while running via Columbia and Royalton would mean one section would have to follow the other.
ExCon90 wrote:Another point is that using the NC enabled the Washington and New York sections to arrive and depart Harrisburg simultaneously, while running via Columbia and Royalton would mean one section would have to follow the other.As long as we're speculating about what they could have done... The Columbia Branch started Harrisburg running parallel with the Main Line to Royalton. The Washington and New York sections could have departed Harrisburg side by side, but with a slower speed limit on the freight line, they wouldn't have been together very long. Now if the DC section left just a few minutes earlier, they could have dramatically crossed each others paths at the jump-over down by the air field. The DC section could also have departed Harrisburg as usual, over the CV bridge, and still used the Columbia & Port Deposit route by following the freight line to Columbia at York Haven Jct. [/fantasy]
Checking PRR and Amtrak schedules, Amtrak took about 15-20 minutes longer using the freight route, electrified and cab signaled though it may have been.
Are there any vestiges of the NC street running left in York today. If so where? Is the NC/PRR station still standing ?
Thank you.
SEPTA FAN
Thank you.
SEPTA FAN
Septa Fan wrote:Are there any vestiges of the NC street running left in York today. If so where? Is the NC/PRR station still standing ?Permit me to answer my own question.
Thank you.
SEPTA FAN
I found what clearly has to have been the station. It abuts the new baseball park Sovereign Bank Stadium "Brooks Robinson Plaza" ? I believe. It is used by Greyhound busses
There seems to be a remnant of street running track along Pershing Avenue it goes off the public road around a transit terminal.