Discussion relating to the Penn Central, up until its 1976 inclusion in Conrail. Visit the Penn Central Railroad Historical Society for more information.

Moderator: JJMDiMunno

  by Big Bri
I've put together what I believe is now a comprehensive and complete roster of the paint scheme that each Penn Central
E-44 Electric had as they became CR property on April 1,1976. Enjoy!

The types of paint schemes worn by E44s are listed below. Note that all E44s had a PC emblem on the nose and road numbers under each cab window.
Full: Full paint and lettering with PENN CENTRAL name and emblem on each side
No marks: Solid black paint with no name of logo on sides
Large PC (only): Large PC emblems on the sides, but no name
Small PC (only): Small PC emblems on the sides, but no name
PENN CENTRAL (only): PENN CENTRAL name spelled out on each side, but no emblem

Number Paint Scheme

4400 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=807786 "Class" unit

4401 Large PC (only) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4401ags.jpg

4402 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=244406

4403 Full http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=157435

4404 Full http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4404ags.jpg

4405 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=66162

4406 No marks (Radio decal) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4406ags.jpg

4407 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=806706

4408 No Marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1469606 (middle unit)

4409 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1265882

4410 No Marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=527857

4411 No marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4411ags.jpg

4412 No marks (Radio decal) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4412kgb.jpg

4413 No marks

4414 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=245500

4415 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1105241

4416 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1022963

4417 Full http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/elec/e44/e44.html (Full markings painted out)

4418 Small PC (only) http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/%7Eduplerd/pa/Harris05.jpg

4419 Full (Black paint) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=294680

4420 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=585241

4421 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1044390

4422 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=528703

4423 Full http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4423cgs.jpg

4424 No Marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4424ags.jpg

4425 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=245514

4426 No marks (Radio decal) http://kpiersol2.rrpicturearchives.net/ ... ?id=204353

4427 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1465470

4428 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=527858

4429 No marks (Radio decal) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr4429.jpg

4430 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=365555

4431 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=363578

4432 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=830661

4433 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... x?id=94405

4434 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1465460

4435 Full

4436 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=527859

4437 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=589137

4438 Full (Radio decal) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4438kga.jpg

4439 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1265882

4440 Penn Central (only) http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 341&nseq=2

4441 Full (Radio decal) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=265778

4442 Penn Central (only) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=639826

4443 Penn Central (only) (Radio decal) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=363582

4444 Full http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1265877 (2nd unit)

4445 No marks (Radio decal) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4445bgs.jpg

4446 No marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4446ags.jpg

4447 Full http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4447bgs.jpg

4448 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=363584

4449 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1465473

4450 No Marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr4450dkb.jpg

4451 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1439443

4452 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1096753

4453 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1511612 (C)B. Woodruff

4454 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1469606

4455 No Marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4438kga.jpg (3rd unit)

4456 Full (Black paint) http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 448&nseq=5

4457 Large PC (only) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4457ags.jpg

4458 No marks http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=363585

4459 No Marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4459ags.jpg

4460 No marks (Radio decal) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1238948

4461 No marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4461kga.jpg

4462 No marks (Radio decal) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=639132

4463 No marks http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4463ags.jpg

4464 Full http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc4464ags.jpg

4465 No Marks (Radio decal) http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=440813

If anybody has any corrections that they'd like to add please feel free to correspond!


Last edited by Big Bri on Fri Jul 24, 2009 6:09 am, edited 17 times in total.
  by Allen Hazen
Out of curiosity, how did you get the information for that? More E-44 photos than I've ever seen?
On another E-44 issue... There were two distinguishable types of truck frame used on the E-44, cast by GSC and Adirondack. (They weren't as dramatically different as the GSC and AD versions of the early FB-3 truck used on U30C, etc, but they were distinguishable: I remember once, around 1980, standing on one of the platforms of the Baltimore passenger station, with an E-44 parked one track over: different truck types at the two ends.) Do you have any information relevant to this?
  by Allen Hazen
I've just looked at the photos you've linked. (Thank you for them, b.t.w.: I've long had an affection for the E-44.) Some of them aren't taken from a good angle for truck details, and in some the break chain is JUST where I didn't want it (Grin!)), but the photos of 4460, 4415 and 4407 caught my eye. I'm not SURE it isn't a smudge or a defect in the photo, but on the side of frame of the front truck of the 4460 I ***THINK*** I can make out the shield-shaped GSC foundry mark just in front of the second axle. Note also the hole in the "long arm" of the frame (i.e. between center and rear axles). No foundry mark is visible in the corresponding location in the phots of 4415 and 4407 (not conclusive: it might just not be showing up in the photo), and the hole is missing.
Guessing, then: hole in the long arm of the truck frame is a sign of GSC truck, no hole a sign of Adirondack. And -- though there were surely enough truck-exchanges during maintenance to make photos from late Penn Central era unreliable on this -- ***maybe*** we've got evidence that Adirondack trucks were more common on lower-numbered E-44.
The basic truck seems to be the same as that used on the U25C, but (i) electrics were maintained at Wilmington, diesels at ??? Altoona ??? and (ii) at least the E-44a had different subtypes of 752 traction motors. So probably there were few if any truck exchanges between U25C and E-44.
  by Big Bri
Hey Allen,
The E-44 is my all time FAVORITE Electric.So consider what I researched a labor-of-love.
I'll give you the "assignment" of discovering the various "trucks" on the E-44.Not my field of expertise. lol
Here's as many links as possible for the E-44's:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoList.aspx?mid=832 rrpicturesarchives

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc-l40.html Penn Central
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/cr/cr-4000.html Conrail
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-elec.html PRR

http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/elec/e44/e44.html CR Cyclopedia

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php RailPics (click on NEW SEARCH then ALL LOCOMOTIVES
scroll down to E-44 and click on)


Last edited by Big Bri on Mon Feb 02, 2009 1:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  by umtrr-author
Very nice! The E-44 and I both came around at about the same time. I used to see them on the Harismus Cove freight line in Jersey City, right out my apartment window.

Have you thought about putting up a web page with this information, or offering it to one of the existing websites? That way there would be a more "permanent" record (relatively speaking in cyberspace of course).
  by Big Bri
It's already on Jerry Jordak's "Penn Central" web-site and I have printed out my roster onto hard-copy for
quick reference.
I'd like to submit the E-44 paint scheme roster to a future issue of "PC Post".

  by Allen Hazen
Thanks for the links! I can see some long evenings coming up... Right now I've looked at 4465 (the unit preserved in Strasburg) as PRR 4465 at the rrpicturearchives.net site. Two of the photos show the front truck in good light, and it is Adirondack: no hole in long arm of frame (what yesterday I guessed was a spotting feature for the AD truck) and -- I think this is best seen in a photo from near the top of the index page -- the AD founders mark (a ligature of the two letters, the right-hand stroke of the A being vertical and serving as the vertical stroke of the D-- left stroke of the A curved so the top of the mark has sort of a Gothic-window profile) is visible on the frame in front of the center axle.
...Since this is the last E-44 (E-44a, I suppose, technically), let me put "on hold" my speculation about AD trucks being more used on the early ones: if I get enough data from your pictures to suggest a pattern, I'll post it.
Glad to find someone who shares my affection for the E-44! ... There have been some E-44 related strings on the GE forum.
  by Big Bri
Why don't you come aboard our superb Yahoo Group!

http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/p ... electrics/

We're ALL big-time Pennsy Electric fans over there.I'm sure your discussion on "trucks" would be a welcome addition.
One of our guys did a "photo-shop" mock-up of an E-44 in the NS "Horse Head" paint scheme and it looks GREAT!!

  by Allen Hazen
I may come aboard (I make up my mind slowly): thanks for the invitation!
Meanwhile, I've made a start on the photo links you provided. At "Fallen Flags" I so far haven't found any photos that show the foundry mark, but if presence/absence of the hole in the long arm of the frame is a reliable spotting feature:
---I looked at the E-44 list for PRR. Not all units represented, but where there was a picture with a good view of the truck, it looked as if those numbered 4417 and up (with one possible exception) had the hole (and so, probably, GSC castings) and those numbered 4413 and under did not (and so, probably, had Adirondack).
---I also looked at the 4600 (E-33: ex-New Haven, exxN&W, exxx-Virginian) pictures on the PC page: all pictures showing the trucks clearly had hole-less (putatively Adirondack) trucks.
---"Mainline Modeler" for February 1997 had an article on the U25C (first built in September 1963: so, about the time the E-44 production was finishing) with photos representing all original owners of the type. Most seem to have "USC" trucks (i.e., hole in frame), but some pictures aren't clear and it looks as if ACL and (perhaps) Oro Dam Constructors had units with hole-less trucks.
  by kalvingp30fan
I have a question did any of the E-44's ever get the different colored P or C in the logos?
  by Big Bri
E-44's 4440,4442-4443 had the "red P" scheme in 1968.
After PC removed that particular logo they never replaced it with the White Worms.Leaving only the
"Penn Central" lettering across the side.
http://crcyc.railfan.net/locos/elec/e44/e44.html Scroll down the page 'til you see the 4440 in the "Red P" scheme.
Click on to enlarge photo.

  by Zeke
Allen, the freight and passenger GG-1's were maintained by the Wilmington shop. Enloa had a large diesel shop that did heavy repairs and running repairs on system diesel power, local yard and transfer diesels. Some system power was also assigned and maintained at Enola. IIRC the GP-35's and some of the SD-40/45's were assigned to Enola on a permanent basis.

The Enola electric shop was the heavy repair point for E-33, ex NH jets and E-44 electric power.So it is possible a U-boat truck wound up under a E-44. A GG-1 that suffered a major breakdown such as a main transformer could be repaired at Enola but only if the motor could not be safely towed dead in train back to Wilmington. The electric shop had the expertise to troubleshoot/repair the freight G's if one came into Enola in bad shape but 99 % of the time Wilmington handled G's.
  by Allen Hazen
Thanks for the correction! I suppose, given the similarity in technology below the frame, it makes sense that the E-33 and E-44 would get most of their servicing at a diesel shop, and Harrisburg/Enola would have been at one end of many freight runs.
(Just goes to prove: I shouldn't make assumptions!)
Thanks again.
  by green_elite_cab
I'm bumping this thread, as i have a question.

Does anyone have any good shots of E44a 4465 and 4457? I'm actually modeling these on conrail ( i have a set of three of the Alpha brass models), but i need help placing the "danger #### Volts" stickers and other things. I know better than to just follow instructions, but i can't find any good photos of the long hoods of these engines while they were in the Conrail/late Penn Central era.