Next Generation Switchers?

[rch]

I work for a railroad that uses anything from Gensets to SD40-2s to GP39-2s (or any combination of the above) to switch yards and industries. As the Gensets get older and continue to break daily, I wonder if they'll have a service life that approaches the SD40-2s (some mfd. in 1974) or the geeps. It's been okay to downgrade the geeps and even the SD40s to yard service since you can easily see down the long hood and they load up pretty quick, which makes them good switchers. But the same can't be done with older Dash 9s. They're no fun to switch with because they load up so slow. Not only that, visibility is poor from the cab to the ground and the radiator blocks the view of signals on the conductor's side when backing up, so I don't see the same future as switchers for the current road motors as the older geeps and SD40s.

So I guess the question is, what's coming to replace the Gensets? What will the next generation switchers look like? Will they be built new or rebuilds of older engines?

[Allen Hazen]

Slow loading has been a traditional complaint about GE locomotives since at least the U-series. I think it is a deliberate choice: faster loading would make them less fuel-efficient or more environmentally objectionable (GE turbochargers take a while to accelerate, so if the unit were to load faster it would probably emit more smoke). It's not inevitable: some GE units (Penn Central/Conrail U23B, I think, for example) had control systems that let them load faster than the "standard" GE. My guess is that with Dash-9 and such, they could be made to load faster by a software change. Which probably wouldn't help with the visibility problems you also mention...

EMD's effort to market "ECO" rebuilds-- take an old EMD unit, replace the original engine with an 8-710 engine-- is an offer to produce essentially a modern switcher: the 8-710 engine gives something like 2000 (or a bit over) horsepower, so any 4-axle unit repowered with it would be the equivalent of a GP-38 or GP-39 with a modern, fuel efficient, low emissions, engine.

GE, before the current recession, was talking about something similar with a six-cylinder inline version of the GEVO engine: again, an engine with the efficiency and environmental friendliness of the current engines for mainline power. If you want to use new carbodies (or modify the old one if you can find a four-axle GE to re-engine), the inline engine MIGHT (I haven't looked at the engine dimensions lately-- since GE is marketing the six cylinder GEVO, under the trade name "250" (= cylinder bore in mm) for marine and stationary applications, you might find them on the GETS website) allow a narrower hood, which help visibility. There is a string about this idea on the GE forum.

But I haven't hear much about GE's ideas for a new generation switcher since the recession. For the moment the major North American railroads seem to be sample numerous different Genset models, and figuring that their GP38/SD40-type units will last a few years more...

[MEC407]

rch, can you elaborate on the problems you're having with the gensets? When you say that they "break daily," what exactly are you referring to?

[rch]

rch, can you elaborate on the problems you're having with the gensets? When you say that they "break daily," what exactly are you referring to?

I'm not familiar with all the fault codes, but when used as a lead switcher, they will often shut down and display "limp in mode" on the screen. In a typical three unit consist, expect one unit to be either isolated as a result of a fault or operating at a reduced output. Lately, volume is lower so they aren't being put through the paces like last summer, but when it ramps back up again I expect the same issues to come back more frequently.

We've had issues with them in RCO operations, and it got to the point where an engineer was called to sit in the crew lounge waiting for them to shut down so the crew could resume work conventionally. Their lack of braking power is well known, as is the total lack of any sound suppression in the cab. If you're unfortunate enough to take them on the main, expect the hunting action to beat you senseless in the cab. I will give them compliments on one area: the toilet compartment is large.

Theoretically three Gensets should equal two SD40-2s in power and braking. In practice, they are far from it. Back in the fall, I was taking a transfer train from our yard to a shortline yard a couple miles away. This move involves dragging out of the yard and shoving back into the other yard up a hill. With three Gensets shoving, I held on the rear car and started back up the hill and over a busy crossing, which is notorious for people running through the gates. After I got about five cars through the crossing, the movement stopped and started rolling back down the hill. Tried again, same result. Ran out the track about a quarter mile and tried a third time. Same result. The shortline ended up coupling up two SD40s and dragging the train up the hill into their yard with ease.

Conceptually, I think they're a great idea. I just don't think they've been executed properly. Without being financed by a grant for their "smaller carbon footprint" I am not so sure we'd have any of them.

[MEC407]

Thanks for the info! Are you at liberty to disclose the make and model of these particular gensets?

[rch]

NRE 3GS21B

[rch]

Slow loading has been a traditional complaint about GE locomotives since at least the U-series. I think it is a deliberate choice: faster loading would make them less fuel-efficient or more environmentally objectionable (GE turbochargers take a while to accelerate, so if the unit were to load faster it would probably emit more smoke). It's not inevitable: some GE units (Penn Central/Conrail U23B, I think, for example) had control systems that let them load faster than the "standard" GE. My guess is that with Dash-9 and such, they could be made to load faster by a software change. Which probably wouldn't help with the visibility problems you also mention...

EMD's effort to market "ECO" rebuilds-- take an old EMD unit, replace the original engine with an 8-710 engine-- is an offer to produce essentially a modern switcher: the 8-710 engine gives something like 2000 (or a bit over) horsepower, so any 4-axle unit repowered with it would be the equivalent of a GP-38 or GP-39 with a modern, fuel efficient, low emissions, engine.

GE, before the current recession, was talking about something similar with a six-cylinder inline version of the GEVO engine: again, an engine with the efficiency and environmental friendliness of the current engines for mainline power. If you want to use new carbodies (or modify the old one if you can find a four-axle GE to re-engine), the inline engine MIGHT (I haven't looked at the engine dimensions lately-- since GE is marketing the six cylinder GEVO, under the trade name "250" (= cylinder bore in mm) for marine and stationary applications, you might find them on the GETS website) allow a narrower hood, which help visibility. There is a string about this idea on the GE forum.

But I haven't hear much about GE's ideas for a new generation switcher since the recession. For the moment the major North American railroads seem to be sample numerous different Genset models, and figuring that their GP38/SD40-type units will last a few years more...

Interesting. I wonder if GE's new engine plant will produce more than the current ES44AC/DC/C4 lineup.

[v8interceptor]

Slow loading has been a traditional complaint about GE locomotives since at least the U-series. I think it is a deliberate choice: faster loading would make them less fuel-efficient or more environmentally objectionable (GE turbochargers take a while to accelerate, so if the unit were to load faster it would probably emit more smoke). It's not inevitable: some GE units (Penn Central/Conrail U23B, I think, for example) had control systems that let them load faster than the "standard" GE. My guess is that with Dash-9 and such, they could be made to load faster by a software change. Which probably wouldn't help with the visibility problems you also mention...

EMD's effort to market "ECO" rebuilds-- take an old EMD unit, replace the original engine with an 8-710 engine-- is an offer to produce essentially a modern switcher: the 8-710 engine gives something like 2000 (or a bit over) horsepower, so any 4-axle unit repowered with it would be the equivalent of a GP-38 or GP-39 with a modern, fuel efficient, low emissions, engine.

GE, before the current recession, was talking about something similar with a six-cylinder inline version of the GEVO engine: again, an engine with the efficiency and environmental friendliness of the current engines for mainline power. If you want to use new carbodies (or modify the old one if you can find a four-axle GE to re-engine), the inline engine MIGHT (I haven't looked at the engine dimensions lately-- since GE is marketing the six cylinder GEVO, under the trade name "250" (= cylinder bore in mm) for marine and stationary applications, you might find them on the GETS website) allow a narrower hood, which help visibility. There is a string about this idea on the GE forum.

But I haven't hear much about GE's ideas for a new generation switcher since the recession. For the moment the major North American railroads seem to be sample numerous different Genset models, and figuring that their GP38/SD40-type units will last a few years more...

GE's proposal for the "ES23B" was made in 2008, which most would argue was during the depths of the Recession:

http://www.fasterfreightcleanerair.com/ ... Lawson.pdf

For whatever reason GE has chosen, so far anyway,not to build a demonstrator locomotive, though they have displayed the inline-6 GEVO at at least one industry event...
GE has a contract with the Port of Houston, TX to repower much of the Port's mobile equipment, including locomotives with low emissions engines, so maybe that will be the demonstration project...

The next batch of 2000 HP ECO units EMD/Progress is building for CN are going to constructed on new frames and although they will reuse some components (trucks,traction motors) from retired Geeps they will be essentially brand new locomotives................

[proto05]

Genset= complete piece of sh!t. had one the other day as a leader (genset on one end, 4 cars in middle, gp38 on other end) and it literally shut down completely, all 3 gen faults, engineer had to go back to the other engine and shove me back into the yard from the industry

[pswag115]

I just hate the damn self venting angle cocks all the gensets I deal with have. The only equipment i dump while cutting the air in. We just use them around the yard, i cant imagine using them as road power.

[rch]

I just hate the damn self venting angle cocks all the gensets I deal with have. The only equipment i dump while cutting the air in. We just use them around the yard, i cant imagine using them as road power.

I couldn't agree more. That is one of the dumbest ideas I've seen put into practice. Being able to hear and feel the flow of air is half the battle to cutting in air. All that air hissing louder than a 747 at takeoff removes any ability to control the flow of air.

[JayBee]

The next batch of 2000 HP ECO units EMD/Progress is building for CN are going to constructed on new frames and although they will reuse some components (trucks,traction motors) from retired Geeps they will be essentially brand new locomotives................

These are for Canadian Pacific, not CN.