Locomotive headlights

[pumpers]

I was waiting to board an Acela yesterday between Boston and NY, and as the train approached no headlights or ditchlights were on on the engine (at least for the 15 seconds or so I noticed it). It was daytime (late afternoon) but raining, with what looked to me like a standard Acela consist with the usual engine. I thought it was S.O.P. that passenger engines had headlights/ditch lights on at all times. Am I wrong or would it have to be some equipment problem (but not enough to keep it out of service, obviously)? JS

[milkyoreo27]

Yep, the other night at about 10PM, I saw a regional with an HHP8 leading at the platforms in New Haven, and it didn't have it's headlights on either.

[Otto Vondrak]

The cause was probably one of three things:

1) The engineer forgot to turn on the lights.

2) The engineer temporarily extinguished the lights so as not to blind patrons standing on the platform.

3) Some other reason.

-otto-

[amtk136west]

The cause was probably one of three things:

2) The engineer temporarily extinguished the lights so as not to blind patrons standing on the platform.


-otto-

The drill at AMTK seems to be to dim\extinguish the lights when they are coming into\at a platform and turn them back on again when they highball. This is most likely done for the reason Otto mentioned as well as not blinding any opposing trains.

[Railjunkie]

NORAC rule 22 states the headlight facing the direction of travel must be displayed brightly by day and night. The headlight must be dimmed, when standing or moving on a main track at meeting points, approaching another train traveling in the opposite direction in multi track territory, passing through yards were other engines are working, approaching a station were a form D will be recieved, and when approaching junctions or terminals.

[.Taurus.]

Hi everybody!
I have another engine headlight question:
Are Mars-(Gyro-)Lights still allowed instead of Ditchlights?
Or is there a NORAC/FRA rule, that prescribe exactly the number and position of ditching lights.

[KV1guy]

CSX the headlight can be turned off for a train standing on other than main track.

[Otto Vondrak]

This topic of headlights it not exclusive to Amtrak so off to General Discussion we go.

-otto-

[John_Perkowski]

Thanks, Otto, and welcome to all of you

[NV290]

Hi everybody!
I have another engine headlight question:
Are Mars-(Gyro-)Lights still allowed instead of Ditchlights?
Or is there a NORAC/FRA rule, that prescribe exactly the number and position of ditching lights.

The FRA standards list the requirements for the location of Ditch/Crossing lights on the front of a Locomotive. CFR 229.133 lists those specifications.

As for an Oscillating (Mars/Gyralight type lights) light being allowed instead of Ditch/Crossing lights? the answer is yes IF it was installed prior to January 1st, 1996. I know of no major railroad who still uses Gyralites but does NOT use Ditchlights though.

[NV290]

The cause was probably one of three things:

2) The engineer temporarily extinguished the lights so as not to blind patrons standing on the platform.


-otto-

The drill at AMTK seems to be to dim\extinguish the lights when they are coming into\at a platform and turn them back on again when they highball. This is most likely done for the reason Otto mentioned as well as not blinding any opposing trains.

There is no NORAC rule that says you cannot dim a headlight when entering a station. But turning a headlight OFF any time you are moving is a rule violation and depending where you turn it off while moving, such as a road crossing, it's actually an FRA decertifiable offense. And the idea of even dimming a headlight to not blind passengers makes no sense at all. If passengers are dumb enough to stare into the headlights, i don't care. They can simply look away. I would be more concerned with hitting somebody and then having a lawyer ask me why i dimmed my headlight which in turn made me less visible when i hit somebody. A railroad that operates in the Boston area, not saying who, but it's not CSX, Amtrak, P&W or Guilford apparently has either no training or no oversight of these rules because their engineers continually turn their headlights off when they approach other trains, usually run with the marker lights on in the direction of travel or their number lights off.

You are not allowed to dim a headlight approaching and going over road crossings either. And if your not allowed by FRA rule over a road crossing exceeding 20mph with your ditchlights off. If you do and your going 30mph or more, you are in violation of going 10mph over the speed limit. That is 30 days on the street, no questions asked.

[Jtgshu]

Gee, I make sure my brights on, with ditch lights on too, when im coming into stations (so long as there isn't another train in the station already)!

Here in NJ, there is a state law that you must blow one long when approaching a station during the day, or at night if people are visible on the platform (sometimes called the Kennedy rule, as I was told it was created after someone was killed in I believe Elizabeth Station by either the protect locos or the actual Bobby Kennedy funeral train), so even if your headlights aren't on bright, the ditch lights will often kick on and start to flash, unless they have a seperate switch and it actaully works.....

[ThirdRail7]

The cause was probably one of three things:

2) The engineer temporarily extinguished the lights so as not to blind patrons standing on the platform.


-otto-

The drill at AMTK seems to be to dim\extinguish the lights when they are coming into\at a platform and turn them back on again when they highball. This is most likely done for the reason Otto mentioned as well as not blinding any opposing trains.

And the idea of even dimming a headlight to not blind passengers makes no sense at all. If passengers are dumb enough to stare into the headlights, i don't care. They can simply look away. I would be more concerned with hitting somebody and then having a lawyer ask me why i dimmed my headlight which in turn made me less visible when i hit somebody. .

It is funny you took this position! I had a huge argument over this earlier last year. A Road Foreman came up to me stating that he had done a compliance test on an engineer. He took exception to him dimming his headlight in the station, noted no rule authorized it and asked me what I thought. I countered no rule said he couldn't. He stated that since there's no rule allowing it, the headlight must be on bright unless it is allowed to be dimmed by rule. I asked him if he advocated splashing people with 52,000 candlelight power as a train approached a station.

It was at this point he made the same statement as you. He mentioned that he was sure the legal department would take exception if someone ever fell in front of the train. I countered that temporarily blinding people with all of that light and sound could actually increase the likelihood of them stumbling in front of the train since they could lose their bearings while their retinas are being fried. Additionally, since the crew has to step off the check their engines (when practicable) at stops, you might as well dim it when you're entering the station. This reduces the likelihood of you stepping off, forgetting to dim the lights and blinding an approaching train.

At this point, the debate took an odd turn (as my debates often do.) To bolster my point, I mentioned that NORAC requires you to sound your horn when you're approaching and passing standing equipment. At the time, only four stations had a written exception( that has since been changed.) I asked him if he was going to take exception to engineers not using their horns when they passed trains in the various terminals where standing equipment on adjacent tracks is routine. Naturally, he said there's a difference. I stated that you can't have a rule for every single scenario. Common sense and judgment must be exercised and latitude for such should be given for such. I remained steadfast and indicated that if the headlight was going to be an issue, then I'd make an issue about the horn. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. We'll follow the rules letter for letter.

He backed off but wasn't happy.