Kazakhstan's national rail company dropped a clanger?

[Toottee]

Hello!
Is here anybody from Kazakhstan? I just wanted to clear for myself something that took my interest a while ago. Perhaps you know that GE has come to terms with Kazakhstan Temir Zholy, the state-owned rail company, for starting a manufacture of Evolution Series in that country.
As it is given in GE official website press release, "Under terms of the contract, GE will manufacture and ship 10 Evolution locomotives in 2008. The 10 units will be made at GE Transportation's locomotive manufacturing facility in Erie, Pennsylvania. Production and delivery of key components for 300 additional locomotives will take place from 2008 through 2012, with final assembly taking place at a new locomotive assembly plant in Pavlodar, Kazakhstan. Total value of the contract is more than $650 million (USD)."
Now, what surprises me, the Evolution Series locomotives fall far behind technological progress and do not meet ecological standards of Kazakhstan. At the same time, their axle loads are exceeding the limits of Kazakh rail roads, which implies increased deterioration. Besides, the project proves to be absolutely economically unsound for Kazakhstan and it prevents the country from creation of its own transportation engineering industries.
So the question is how did it happen that Kazakh authorities agreed to such a violent assumption? Maybe, GE had been lobbying it through some political means? Any ideas?

[GOLDEN-ARM]

Maybe Borat was their negotiator?................

[kz-niento]

ha-ha! perhaps Borat, yes! :D

if you allow me,
well actually, to be serious, I'm sure that was some kind of a shady deal on the part of GE. I've heard something about that and I can say that even Kazakhstan's president Nazarbaev was firmly speaking against making any contracts with GE. afaik he was informed that GE was merely about to sell their out-of-date engines 7FDL12 as they were banned to use in the US and Europe in 2005 and had no actual marketing outlets except that in the third world countries.
and yet, Nazarbaev had to comply after US vice president Cheney came on business visit to Astana. as it turned out, one of GE corporate directors William Castell unexpectedly arrived together with Cheney and after the question of a new locomotive assembly plant came on, Nazarbaev had just to accept the offer even though it would affect Kazakh rail roads and own engineering industry (that's just what you said Toottee).

[MEC407]

as they were banned to use in the US and Europe in 2005 and had no actual marketing outlets except that in the third world countries.

The FDL engine has not been "banned" in the U.S. GE simply chose to move forward with the GEVO engine instead. The FDL and FDM (marine) are still available if customers want them, and there are thousands of them currently in service. GE recently announced that it will be supplying 8-cylinder FDM engines to the Texas Department of Transportation for a marine ferry project.

[junction tower]

"
Now, what surprises me, the Evolution Series locomotives fall far behind technological progress and do not meet ecological standards of Kazakhstan.

SAY WHAT??????????????

[jgallaway81]

Thanks Junction Tower... I was wondering the same thing.

After all the GEVO engine series is the same powerplant being used for the new Evolution-Hybrid.

[Allen Hazen]

Toottee may know more than I do (in which case the participants in this forum, who are passionately interested in locomotives, would LOVE to hear more details!), but a number of things he says strike me as surprising.

(i) That the Evolution locomotive is "far behind technological progress" and "does not meet ecological standards of Kazakhstan." The Evolution Series is GE's current offering in the highly competitive North American market, and as far as I know is generally considered "state of the art" for locomotive technology. It meets current environmental standards in the U.S., and I would be surprised if the emissions standards in C.I.S. republics (including Kazakhstan) were tighter than the U.S. standards. (U.S. standards for NOISE, on the other hand, are definitely NOT the world's strictest: GE and EMD locomotives built for mainline service in Australia, for example, have huge mufflers over the engines to reduce noise: so huge that the final exhaust stacks are at the opposite end of the engine compartment from those of U.S. domestic GE and EMD locomotives!)

(ii) That "their axle loads are exceeding the limits of Kazak rail roads." This would almost certainly be true for Evolution Series locomotives identical in design to those built for U.S. railroads. (Permissible axle loads on U.S. main lines exceed 30 metric tonnes; those on main lines in the former Soviet Union would be several tonnes less: perhaps as low as 23 tonnes? Anybody here KNOW?) But the Kazakh locomotives would be of a modified design (probably different trucks, smaller fuel tank), and GE has shown itself able to design a 4000-hp unit (the Goninan-GE NR class) capable of operating on most Australian main lines: I suspect that the primary lines in Kazakhstan would have comparable axle-load limits. (A brochure on the Kazakhstan locomotive project, available at the GE "Ecoimagination" WWWebsite, has an artist's impression: cab similar to that shown in artist's impressions of the 6000-hp locomotives for China, but a full-width carbody: if his carbody is structural, and not just a "cowl," it could permit a lighter over-all weight than can be achieved with a hood unit.)

(iii) That the deal with GE "prevents the country from creation of its own transportation engineering industries." This is a debatable political judgment. In favor of the deal it could be argued that it would be foolish for Kazakhstan to attempt a totally authochthonous locomotive industry based on home-grown technology: even countries like India, with a far more robust engineering tradition and a wealth of engineering talent, base their locomotive industries on imported engine and transmission technology. Setting up a plant in Kazakstan to erect locomotives with imported components might be a better way to create an appropriate transportation engineering industry.

(iv) (re a comment by kz-niento) An earlier GE-Kazakhstan deal involved re-engining Soviet-era locomotives with GE's FDL-12 engine, but "Evolution Series" is GE's trade name for locomotives with the newer GEVO engine design: I think the locomotives to be built under the deal Tottee is referring to are to have the newer engine.