GSC/Adirondack truck differences

[BN7151]

What are the design and mechanical differences of the GSC and Adirondack trucks? I have seen both types and cannot tell the difference.

[Ol' Loco Guy]

The differences are to my recollection, mostly cosmetic. First, you can tell
them apart by the logo cast into the sideframe.

The Adirondack trucks would have a stylized AD logo and the GSC trucks
have the letter G located within the outline of a shield.

Other than that, they are mechanically interchangeable between locos.

Adirondack, which was located right near the D&H Colonie Shop, went
out of business a long time ago. For that matter, I think GSC did, too.

[BN7151]

I noticed that one truck is mostly straight in design and that one has more of a curved shape. I do know that they are mechanically and functionally identical. Is there any design difference that is unique to either design, other than the logos?

[scottychaos]

I found these 2 drawings of the same unit, just with the 2 different trucks.
if you open them in seperate windows you can toggle back and forth and see the VERY small differences..

http://paintshop.railfan.net/images/eby/u30c_ph2-a.html

http://paintshop.railfan.net/images/eby/u30c_ph2-g.html

[Espeelark]

Not the best photo, but the back is an "Adirondack" style truck and the front is a GSC style truck:
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/c-boa ... kinley.jpg

[Espeelark]

Here's an even better photo to illustrate the difference between Adirondack and GSC style trucks.
The rear are Adirondack and the front are GSC.
Can you tell I'm partial to the "espee"?
http://espee.railfan.net/nonindex/c-boa ... engler.jpg

[Allen Hazen]

The truck-frame casting was one of the components GE bought from outside suppliers. My impression is that they patronized both GSC and Adirondack in the 1960s; I **think** they got more from Adirondack in the Dash-7 period (late 1970s), but I could be wrong about this.
Note that Adirondack, at least, changed its design: early Adirondack FB-3 trucks (on, eg, early U30C) had a prominent horizontal "shelf" over the center-axle bearing: later ones didn't.
Note also that truck castings are often re-used: some C30-7 were built (I think) with much earlier-design truck castings from old U-series trade-ins. And also locomotives can trade trucks when in the shop for repairs, so there is no guarantee that a locomotive was delivered on the trucks you see.
Finally: there wasn't much visible difference, but the frames of the earlier drop-equalizer truck (used on, eg, U25C) were also obtained from both GSS and Adirondack: around 1980 I saw (parked at the Baltimore passenger station) a Conrail (ex-PRR) E44 electric locomotive with one GSC and one AD truck.

[BN7151]

Thanks, guys. That made it a LOT simpler. Now I can tell which is which!

[Allen Hazen]

A VERY long time ago, I asked about the use of GSC and Adirondack trucks on the E-44 electric locomotive. Now (2 February 2009), over at the "Penn Central" forum, Big Bri has posted an E-44 roster giving their final Penn Central paint schemes. (Yes, I know, the temptation is just to say "Black or more black," but there were variations a super-detail modeler might want to know about.) He has linked to a number of photos of E-44, some of them giving good views of the truck frames. I ***think*** that 4460 shows the GSC version, 4415 and 4406 the Adirondack.

Or just gaze at the pretty pictures if (like me) you are an E-44 fan.

[trainiac]

I know this is an old topic, but since it has been brought to the surface again, I might just mention that the two paintshop.net drawing links have the wrong truck designations--they should be the other way around (those are some of my really old drawings). The Adirondack truck is less rounded than the GSC. The fact that they are interchangeable can be seen in many units which have one of each.

A better representation:
Adirondack:
http://trainiax.net/drawings/36-ge/c-7/ ... -ph1-a.gif

GSC:
http://trainiax.net/drawings/36-ge/c-7/ ... -ph1-g.gif

It's also worth noting that earlier Adirondack trucks on U-boats were even chunkier in appearance, with a pronounced ridge across the center axle. Both could have either low- or high-mounted brake cylinders, but the last 6-axle GE's with Adirondack trucks were early Dash-8 units.

[Engineer Spike]

I have noted small differences in the castings of EMD HT-C trucks between Rockwell and Dofasco. The main point is that the parts ( brake rigging, center casting, traction motor mounts, etc.) were all interchangeable.

[Allen Hazen]

Engineer Spike--
As far as I know, the GE locomotive trucks from GSC and Adirondack were completely equivalent in functional terms. (The many photos of GE locomotives with mis-matched pairs of trucks indicates that railroad maintenance shops didn't stress over the differences!)

I didn't know that EMD also got trucks from two suppliers. Was this, at least originally, a differnce between EMD production at La Grange (in the same country as Rockwell) and London (in the smae country as Dofasco)?

Back to GE: I forget where GE gets truck frames from for current production: a few years ago they were using a South African supplier. Probably, now that Adirondack and GSC are history, rivet-counting railfans could research the minor differences between "roller blades" trucks from different foundries!

[bogieman]

Allen,

Before EMD and Diesel Diviision in London were merged into a common organization in 1987, they really operated as independent units, with DD acting much like an associate such as Clyde in Austraiia or Nohab in Sweden. So DD sourced trucks from Dofasco and EMD from LFM-Rockwell-Atchison... independently. I don't recall EMD ever even approving the Dofasco trucks for use under EMD locomotives, except indirectly with the BN SD40-2's built at DD. In fact, I made a trip to inspect Dofasco's facility and processes in 1988, not long before they went out of business the first time.

Dave

[tomt45]

trailing truck on 2302 is an 'adirondack'

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=261529

[Allen Hazen]

The rear truck in the photo tomt45 posted, like those on the SP units Espeelark posted links to earlier, is an EARLY Adirondack truck: later Adirondack truck castings do not have the dramatic "eyebrow" over the center axle: see the drawings of C36-7 with GSC and AD trucks that trainiac posted links to.

I'm not sure when the change in the design was made, but since truck castings are durable, and trucks get swapped between locomotives in maintenance and trade-in trucks get re-used on new units, early-style trucks can be seen under units built after the design change.