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  • B&M 3666 (steam locomotive sunk in Piscataqua River)

  • Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.
Discussion relating to the pre-1983 B&M and MEC railroads. For current operations, please see the Pan Am Railways Forum.

Moderator: MEC407

 #166836  by TomNelligan
 
Yep, there's a B&M steam locomotive in Portsmouth, although it's probably a little rusty by now. On September 10, 1939, P2b class Pacific 3666 was heading up a passenger train when it took a detour off the Piscataqua River bridge and wound up in the harbor, along with a baggage car. It's still there in the muck, although it was moved about 20 or 30 years ago by the Army Corps of Engineers to get it farther away from the navigation channel.

Know any divers? :-)

 #166911  by TomNelligan
 
NellsChoo wrote:Can it be seen from land?
Not that I'm aware of. I don't know exactly where in the harbor the Army CoE hauled it to when they moved it away from the bridge, but the idea was to sink it in water deep enough that it wouldn't be a potential hazard to navigation.

I wouldn't be surprised if it's listed on a current marine chart of Portmouth harbor, but they'd only list it as an obstruction similar to a reef or shoal, not as a "B&M steam locomotive sitting on the bottom".

Seriously, I bet the local divers would know exactly where to find it. But remember that after 66 years in salt water there probably isn't much left except a boiler, a frame, and the wheels... not exactly something that could be raised up and put on display.

 #170113  by Richard Glueck
 
I know it has been dived pon and some parts have been removed. I have yet to see a photograph of the locomotive as it sits on the bottom. Why they chose to move it, rather than remove it is beyond me. About ten years ago, some wild-ass loonies wanted to raise money to raise it and repaint it as a static display. I'm sure her drivers and rods, boiler and a few fittings are recognizable, but I'm equally sure it ends there. You might extract a brass ring off a gauge, and possibly the remnants of a builders plate. Otherwise, its merely rusty metal. The tender would be little more than flakes of rust. Still, who wouldn't like to see it?

 #170530  by ferroequinarchaeologist
 
>>some wild-ass loonies
Don't hold back, guy ... :wink:

Seriously, I read that it was moved several feet to make room for one of the footings for the I-95 Piscataqua River Bridge.

PBM

 #170539  by NellsChoo
 
Does seem funny it would be moved but not removed. And when it was moved, how much damage was caused? We may never know...

 #170562  by Richard Glueck
 
Oh, I'm fairly sure it'll get brought up someday, but we like to envision a Pacific class locomotive in pristine condition, which it won't be. Even as an artifact, exposure to the brackish water will have impregnated the steel with salt, causing it to oxidize into a pile of rust so quickly you'll be amazed! I'd love to see her, but remember, not only has she been underwater for 70 years, she had a hot boiler and plunged into the ice cold waters of the Picataqua River. BOOM!
The locomotive will be cut up as soon as it gets onto the land, or possibly while still underwater to aid in the lift.
Some of you Portsmouth and Kittery region guys should chase down the dive shops to see what's been done with her thus far.

 #170577  by Red Wing
 
Probably cheaper to move it rather than raise it out of the water and then dispose of it.

 #171031  by Steam
 
It actually was moved TWICE over the years. The second time, everyone expected it to be removed, but at the last minute plans were changed and it was dumped to the bottom once more.

I've seen a few very poor pictures taken by scuba divers. Hard to make out very much because the water is pretty murky.

The B&MRR Historical Society has one of the engine's eccentric rods in their collection. It was brought up by someone and the Society was able to get it. It is all clean and looks brand new.

During one of the "movings", the trailing truck axle and spoked wheels was brought up and hauled ashore. I've a newspaper picture of it sitting on the beach with a worker standing next to it. Anyone know what became of it?

I suspect the frame and heavy castings are in reasonable shape, but the rest must be pretty far gone by now. Soon after the engine went into the water, an experiment was undertaken to wrap the boiler in copper wire and let the salt water "dissolve" the locomotive through the process of electrolysis. It was written up in papers of the day. How much effect that had isn't known.

A fascinating subject, for sure!

 #172089  by b&m 1566
 
Was the bell from it ever recovered or is that still down there? Was the builder’s plate removed or is that still down there? No doubt it’s probably almost dissolved buy now but I’m sure some of the thicker areas like the wheels are still notice able. Things like that should be removed and put on display somewhere as a memorial. Did anyone die in the accident? I don't know, is just some questions I have and my thoughts on what could have been done and what should be done.

 #172252  by Richard Glueck
 
Not so much as a memorial, but as a curiosity or historical artifact. Her drivers are probably okay, but would require sandblasting and chemical treatment before painting. I thin the bell has been gone many years. ANyone who has access to the pictures, please scan and post them!

Yes, the two enginemen died.

 #172380  by ewh
 
I used to live in the Portsmouth area many years ago. The Piscataqua is both a fast flowing and tidal river and any diving there is very dangerous. Remember that the engine has been in the salt water only about 25 years less than the Titanic has been on the bottom, only it has been affected more by flowing water, not to mention being moved by the Corps of Engineers. If it ever sees the light of day, it won't be going to Steamtown or the Museum of Science.

 #177104  by NellsChoo
 
I caught the last few minutes of a show in the History Channel that was bout a dive to two old steam engines here in the US. Sure wish I had seen it, as they were Civil Ware era, I think. What type of water are they in compared to NH?

 #177354  by wolfmom69
 
Nells; I saw the same show when it was first on,months ago. A ship was taking the 2 older locos,from 1840-50s from the builder,in Mass. I think,to the south, or middle Atlantic states,when the ship ran into trouble off New Jersey coast,and went down(or they may have jettisoned the locos!).

The show had found the builder of the locos,and I think their destination.

Very early steamers,and I think the water is certainly deeper than the river in Kittery/Portsmouth.

Bud :P