Does anyone model the BR&P???

[JT76]

I always wanted to model the BR&P circa WWI. Over the past few years i have been able to collect some BR&P HO scale cars that are available from time to time and also the Ashford JCT tower, but thats about all i was able to find. Im aware there wont be much out there for a small railroad that vanished over 75 years ago, but is there anything close as far as steam locos go? It would be so much easier to model the 1930's - 1940's with all the B&O stuff available but theres something about the BR&P, i know i wont be happy unless thats is what i do. I have wanted to do it for a while now, and with the off season from the car scene here, and ample time when im not in College classes, a new house with a big basement, why not start it? I randomly picked up the Great Model railroads 08' issue and saw the PS&N layout and that is what inspired me to get moving on this. So anyone have advice or tips, anyone else into the BR&P?

[Otto Vondrak]

What part of the BR&P interests you? What area do you want to model? What kinds of trains do you want to run (realistically)? What's more important, scenery or operation? How much room do you want to devote to your model railroad? How many people are helping you?

[JT76]

I am mainly interested in the New York State operations. I would like to have detailed Ashford Jct scene worked in. My main interest is the Buffalo Division, Mainly Between Orchard Park and East Salamanca...
Im more into the scenery aspect of the layout, but i would like to run the Coal Trains as well as mixed freight, locals, passenger runs etc, nothing in the way of realistic timetables etc, just for fun. I have half of my basement that is currently open, empty space i would say the area is 15X 25 feet. As far as help, i have a lot of tools etc between myself and friends who would be willing to help construct benchwork, but as far as building the layout, i want to do that myself. I think it would be a good way to relax after a day of work/school. I want to start small (obviously), begin with an easy segment to model and grow from there.

[Otto Vondrak]

15x25 is a good size. Is this your first model railroad?

I'm sure you did a search and found this:

http://wnyrails.org/railroads/brp/brp_home.htm

If you could find a copy of Paul Pietrak's 1979 book, you'd be in good shape.

-otto-

[JT76]

When i was younger (im 22 now) i had a small L shaped layout that i built with my grandad. I have the "basics" you could say...

lol i guess i have a complete BR&P library

Paul Pietraks book
Bill fries book picturing and listing every BR&P station
a book on BR&P wrecks
Both of the "BR&P In Color" books (ny state and middle division)
Every calender the salamanca rail museum ever put out (lots of BR&p photos)

along with books on connecting and intersecting lines
Erie's bradford divison book
B&S book, PS&N book, and WNY&P book all by pietrak.

[scottychaos]

JT
are you aware of this?
(you probably are! but just in case:

http://www.valleymodeltrains.com/website/619ho.html

scroll down to item HO107


I would like to model the BR&P!
someday..
but probably only a few locomotives, no actual model railroad..
locomotives in 1/29 scale (G scale)

I love the look of the turn of the century BR&P Brooks locomotives..
very sleek and clean and with their Russia Iron boilers..

Ive done a lot of research on Russia Iron boilers:

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychao ... page2.html

and BR&P had some of the latest examples ive seen..
the 2-6-6-2's and 2-8-8-2's were built with Russia Iron as late as 1918.
MUCH later than most other uses of that boiler cladding..
Virtually every builders photo in the Pietrak book from 1890-1918 shows a Russia Iron boiler..

I can only assume the BR&P ordered their (later) engines that way for style alone..
simply for the classy look...

I would like to find out if the BR&P maybe used some color on their engines during this timeframe..
other than "basic black"..perhaps for passenger engines..
but so far I found no documentation on this..

Scot

[JT76]

Wow i have never heard of Russia iron before.
I dug out the book and your right. Every builder's photo shows this, along with shots of locomotives out in the field. However, in shots i have of the B&O days in both of Mike Zollitsch's books they are all black. Did the B&O paint over it or by that point were they do neglected and dirty that they appeared to be black? Thank you for bringing this to light, def something i would incorporate into my roster.

[scottychaos]

Wow i have never heard of Russia iron before.
I dug out the book and your right. Every builder's photo shows this, along with shots of locomotives out in the field. However, in shots i have of the B&O days in both of Mike Zollitsch's books they are all black. Did the B&O paint over it or by that point were they do neglected and dirty that they appeared to be black? Thank you for bringing this to light, def something i would incorporate into my roster.

As soon as a boiler jacket needed to be replaced, however long that took, it would most likely be replaced by a new "standard" jacket..
regular steel, painted black..

Im not sure if Russia iron ever got painted over..seems unlikely, (it wouldnt really need to be painted) but its possible..
and yes, a Russia Iron boiler could look "black" just from dirt and grime, if it wasnt kept clean..
Russia Iron really stands out on Builders photos..when the engine is new..
but "in service" pics are harder to determine..

IMO, any loco that wore Russia iron when new, but later had a black boiler, probably got a replacement jacket..
most likely due to a rebuild..or the jacket needed to be replaced due to normal wear and tear..

Steam locos probably got new outer jackets more often than we suspect..
its hard to tell, because normally a new jacket looks pretty much the same as an old one!
but the jacket was (relatively) thin metal, meant only to hold down a layer of asbestos (or other insulation)..
the actual boiler itself was much more substantial metal..

many "display" steamers today are missing their outer jacket,
and have only the boiler showing..which in service would have been covered.
jackets were usually removed when asbestos was removed to put the engine on display..and the jacket was probably too rusted or damaged to replace.

A PRR decopod in service, with a smooth boiler jacket covering the boiler:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.p ... 17&nseq=23

PRR 4483 today, without her jacket, showing her actual boiler with all the rivits visable:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-s4483bnw.jpg

Scot

[JT76]

Take a peek at Pietraks book (if you have it) there are a lot of instances where you can tell plain as day that the locomotive has the russian jacket in shots from the '20's etc. I belive this is for the fact that the BR&P washed their locomotives on a regular basis. It is very prevalent on the 4-6-2 Passenger locos. And i take back what i said about the B&O days, after looking a bit harder into the color photos, you can tell that a few have the Russian iron jacket for sure (you can see around the edges, or where water leaked down) So its apparent to me that some of it was around to see the scrapper . What a shame there are none left.

[Otto Vondrak]

lol i guess i have a complete BR&P library...

So if you have the books, what questions can we help you answer?