4610 front end experiment

[Allen Hazen]

Page 133 of Alvin Stauffer's "B&O Power" has a photo of 4610 (a Q4 Mikado) with smoke deflectors and a stack that looks to my nonexpert eye like a Giesl ejector, but which the caption says is a Kylchap exhaust. No date is given, and I didn't see any further information in the text.
Can anyone here tell me more about this experiment?
(I have also posted this question, in slightly longer form, to the "Steam Locomotives" forum at Railroad.net)

[Jay Potter]

Allen, if you don't receive an adequate response from either group, try the Baltimore_and_Ohio Yahoo group. It has a number of members who are knowledgable about steam.

[hutton_switch]

I will be going to a presentation at the B&O Museum later this month to hear Mr. Harry Eck, legendary B&O mechanical engineer, talk about the Q4's that ran over the Old Main Line from Brunswick, MD to Baltimore on the so-called "Beef Train". If I get a chance to talk to Harry, I'll present your question to him. An answer from Harry on this will be about as authoritative as you can get.

[Allen Hazen]

Jay Potter, hutton switch--
Thank you, both. I've got dubious e-mail connections until the end of the month, but I'll look to see if you (hw) have fopund out something, and will follow up your (JP) lead!
I Googled "Kylala" (or maybe "Kylchap": these exhaust systems (the basic idea is a multi-jet blast pipe with complex"skirts" above it: the devil is in the details, but it is suppose to provide better draft with lower back pressure by mixing the exhaust steam with the firebox exhaust more efficiently than simple blast pipe arrangements) seem to use normal width stacks (though some versions use double stacks or even more) rather than the verry narrow Giesl ejector stack. (Mildly cynical comment I read somewhere was that the main advantage of the Giesl would not be thermodynamic efficiency but better access to tube sheet for maintenance!) So, though I'm not 100% confident, I ***think*** 4610 had a Giesl.
Part of the efficiency gain claimed for these fancy exhausts came from lowering the pressure of the blast, with the result that the smoke would come out of the stack at lower pressure and/or velocity, with the result that it would be more likely to "hug" the top of the boiler. So application of smoke lifters to a locomotive with one of these exhaust systems would be a natural step.
As to the date.... I think Giesl's were post WW II (and the C&O's experimental application only slightly before the decision to dieselize). I have read (in the old "Locomotive Profiles" pamphlet on NYC Hudsons that a Kylala multi-jet blast pipe was applied experimentally to a J-1 in 1931: possibly because American practice was to run locomotives at higher power outputs for long periods of time (the British author expresses surprise at the amount of coal burned per hour per sqare foot of grate), blast nozzles needed frequent replacement,and NYC apparently thought the efficiency improvement of the Kylala exhaust (if any) wasn't enough to pay for the special castings.

[Steam man]

Check this site out for information on locomotive exhaust systems

http://www.trainweb.org/tusp/ex_dwgs.html

[Allen Hazen]

Stem Man (I think you signed as W.L. Avis, but I can't see that part of your message right now)---
Thanks for the tip! That site-- "The Ultimate Steam Page"-- is bookmarked on my usual computer. When I get home, in a couple of days, I will look at the drawings to see if I can figure out more. (I looked at a few drawings on other sites a week or so back, and thought the stack shown in Stauffer's book looked a lot more gieslish than kylchappish. B&O was famous for steam experimentation earlier; it looks as if some experimentation continued even past WW II (though I'd love a date on the photo!).)
Thanks again; I will post any thoughts I have when I get a chance.

[hutton_switch]

Allen,

Unfortunately, I was unable to attend Harry Eck's lecture yesterday to ask him afterwards about your inquiry, due to having to attend to a sick family member. It seems that others have tried to provide you with some useful information on your question since I said I would try to get you an answer.

I got out my copy of B&O Power to confirm the photo you were talking about. There is an additional volume on B&O Mikado locomotives, appropriately titled Q - The Definitive History of The Baltimore and Ohio Railroad Company's Q-Class Mikado Locomotives, which is by Howard N. Barr (deceased) and William A. Barringer (still living, and he posts regularly at the Yahoo! B&O forum). The book was produced with the assistance of Harry C. Eck and Charles S. Roberts. It's good that we have three of four experts still around who can provide good input on this. Jay Potter's suggestion above is still a very good one, and if you post there, I'm sure that Bill will eventually respond.

Anyhow, I looked in my copy of Q for some additional information on what you're asking about. The same photo of #4610 is reproduced here as in B&O Power. About the only thing additional I can add is what I quote as follows, directly from page 150 of the book:

KYLCHAP FRONT END - 1950

"A European redesign of the Giesl-Ejector Front End employing a double exhaust system. The front system exhausted from the front of both cylinders; the back system from back of both. Four nozzles exhausted into two separate intermediate nozzles, one behind the other, then through separate stacks. The separte stacks were enclosed in one single housing. The double exhaust system reduced overall height of the assembly...this design provided excellent draft with unusually low back-pressure and low exhaust pressure."

I don't know whether or not this provides you with any additional input for an answer. If not, your best best is to post at Yahoo!