• Newtown line leased to Montco for recreational trail

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

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  by MikeBPRR
 
Pacobell73 wrote:
glennk419 wrote:Just wait until the beer bottles, WaWa coffee cups and Burger King wrappers start littering Mr. Stern's lawn. How GREEN is that?
I say we get together and purposely litter the line. That goes against my princple, but it certainly makes a statement.
It makes a statement that railfans suck because of their idealism, and even the thought of trains brings hooligans to peaceful, innocent Abington. Imagine what a train to the big bad city would do. Lay some model railroad track along the trail for irony's sake. Tell anyone who asks "I'm laying the track for upcoming passenger service." You could also dress like a railroad hobo every time you walk the trail, maybe sit at one of the stations day and night and say that you're waiting for the train to come back. Do something that will make people laugh and maybe think, not react negatively.

In the meantime, let's petition for the Newtown Dinky! Local from Newtown to the metropolis of Bethayres, Pennsylvania with connections to the R3! No Abington NIMBYs bothered, no diamond crossing, no cut-off, just a curve away from the old ROW to just across Huntingdon Pike from the Bethayres station!
  by scotty269
 
MikeBPRR wrote:
Pacobell73 wrote:
glennk419 wrote:Just wait until the beer bottles, WaWa coffee cups and Burger King wrappers start littering Mr. Stern's lawn. How GREEN is that?
I say we get together and purposely litter the line. That goes against my princple, but it certainly makes a statement.
It makes a statement that railfans suck because of their idealism, and even the thought of trains brings hooligans to peaceful, innocent Abington. Imagine what a train to the big bad city would do. Lay some model railroad track along the trail for irony's sake. Tell anyone who asks "I'm laying the track for upcoming passenger service." You could also dress like a railroad hobo every time you walk the trail, maybe sit at one of the stations day and night and say that you're waiting for the train to come back. Do something that will make people laugh and maybe think, not react negatively.

In the meantime, let's petition for the Newtown Dinky! Local from Newtown to the metropolis of Bethayres, Pennsylvania with connections to the R3! No Abington NIMBYs bothered, no diamond crossing, no cut-off, just a curve away from the old ROW to just across Huntingdon Pike from the Bethayres station!
Dinky service, eh? I like that concept. Let's all send emails to the CMSL and ask if they're interested in running a set of RDC cars for the new dinky.
  by Clearfield
 
scotty269 wrote:Dinky service, eh? I like that concept. Let's all send emails to the CMSL and ask if they're interested in running a set of RDC cars for the new dinky.
CMSL can't even get Cape May service up and running.
  by scotty269
 
Clearfield wrote:
scotty269 wrote:Dinky service, eh? I like that concept. Let's all send emails to the CMSL and ask if they're interested in running a set of RDC cars for the new dinky.
CMSL can't even get Cape May service up and running.
Sarcasm.... :wink:
  by nickrapak
 
I was thinking about it, and I like the "Bethayres Interlocking" idea. First, it avoids the most contentious portion of the line. Second, it provides the option for a service that I feel will be more patronized by Newtownians, a Newtown-New York service. Many people who live in Newtown commute to New York, and having an express service Newtown-West Trenton-NYP would probably be very well patronized, even as a cheaper service to NYP from Philadelphia.
  by scotty269
 
nickrapak wrote:I was thinking about it, and I like the "Bethayres Interlocking" idea. First, it avoids the most contentious portion of the line. Second, it provides the option for a service that I feel will be more patronized by Newtownians, a Newtown-New York service. Many people who live in Newtown commute to New York, and having an express service Newtown-West Trenton-NYP would probably be very well patronized, even as a cheaper service to NYP from Philadelphia.
http://railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.ph ... 56#p638156

I suggested connecting the Newtown line to the R3 at Bethayres, but was quickly shot down. The biggest issue seems to be the capacity of the main line between Jenkin and Wayne with only two tracks. During peak times, there is simply not enough time or space to fit an additional set of trains down that limited space.

Now, unless the restored Newtown service ran via the Trenton Cutoff and down the CSX Trenton Line.... *note to self: stop fantasizing*
  by RussNelson
 
glennk419 wrote:Just wait until the beer bottles, WaWa coffee cups and Burger King wrappers start littering Mr. Stern's lawn. How GREEN is that?
Generally, managed trails are cleaner than the railroads that preceded them. Do you have any evidence of this being a problem on other rail-trails?
  by R3 Passenger
 
RussNelson wrote:In the meantime, let's petition for the Newtown Dinky! Local from Newtown to the metropolis of Bethayres, Pennsylvania with connections to the R3! No Abington NIMBYs bothered, no diamond crossing, no cut-off, just a curve away from the old ROW to just across Huntingdon Pike from the Bethayres station!
I like the idea too, but then you gotta worry about the nearby wetlands with that too. There would need to be an entirely new connection engineered for that. I'm not sure how you could go about that.

I would actually support a trolley service for this that loops at Bethayres and loops at the other end on street running in Newtown with express running on the private ROW of the former Newtown line. Build the maintenance facilities at the end of the trail, thus giving it a destination to somewhere. :-P
RussNelson wrote:
glennk419 wrote:Just wait until the beer bottles, WaWa coffee cups and Burger King wrappers start littering Mr. Stern's lawn. How GREEN is that?
Generally, managed trails are cleaner than the railroads that preceded them. Do you have any evidence of this being a problem on other rail-trails?
Whose side are you on?
  by Patrick Boylan
 
Pacobell73 wrote:
RussNelson wrote: I think you'll find that bicyclists have many fewer heart attacks than the rest of the population. Have you ever heard of a bicyclist having a heart attack anywhere, much less on a rail-trail?
A friend of my father's was jogging on a rail trail once and dropped dead of a sudden heart attack. 51 years old, great shape. So, yes, it does happen.
My feeling also is that bicyclists would have fewer heart attacks than the rest of the population, but I also know of a coworker's brother who died on a charity fundraiser Philly-Atlantic City bike ride. I don't know if it was a heart attack, and I didn't know the coworker vwry well and the brother not at all, but I'd assume they were both in reasonably good shape.
Another example is Grace Kelly's brother John Kelly Jr, Olympic rower, who had a heart attack while jogging.
ChrisinAbington wrote: I know the stats are bad about rail-trails going back to rails
I don't know of any trails to rails reconversions, but the sample may be skewed. Remember these rails to trails happened in places where somebody convinced somebody else there wasn't much potential for rail restoration.
I feel more to the point should be the statistics for reopened abandoned passenger lines in general whose infrastructure had been converted or obliterated.
  by Tritransit Area
 
In regards to trails to rails, I know the Purple Line in suburban DC is having issues involving one of the bike trails that was built on an old ROW. The trail became popular, and now that they are putting trains back on it (Light Rail), the users are up in arms and are among the opponents of the line.

It's sad because a cross county connector really is needed there. And some areas, such as Langley Park, really could use a rail line
  by Pacobell73
 
MikeBPRR wrote:Lay some model railroad track along the trail for irony's sake. Tell anyone who asks "I'm laying the track for upcoming passenger service." You could also dress like a railroad hobo every time you walk the trail, maybe sit at one of the stations day and night and say that you're waiting for the train to come back. Do something that will make people laugh and maybe think, not react negatively.
I agree more on that. I would rather get a laugh and promote the good than be a reactionary. Get more bees with hunny (like I said, the garbage idea goes against my principle - then you gotta clean it up).

Wow, the Pennypack Trail Garden Railway. That would be a hoot and a half!!!! :-)
  by Pacobell73
 
RussNelson wrote:
glennk419 wrote:Just wait until the beer bottles, WaWa coffee cups and Burger King wrappers start littering Mr. Stern's lawn. How GREEN is that?
Generally, managed trails are cleaner than the railroads that preceded them. Do you have any evidence of this being a problem on other rail-trails?
True. The Bethlehem Line never looked cleaner than it does these days. However, wrong argument being made here. This line should never ever have gotten as far as the trail it is now.
  by MikeBPRR
 
R3 Passenger wrote:
RussNelson wrote:In the meantime, let's petition for the Newtown Dinky! Local from Newtown to the metropolis of Bethayres, Pennsylvania with connections to the R3! No Abington NIMBYs bothered, no diamond crossing, no cut-off, just a curve away from the old ROW to just across Huntingdon Pike from the Bethayres station!
I like the idea too, but then you gotta worry about the nearby wetlands with that too. There would need to be an entirely new connection engineered for that. I'm not sure how you could go about that.
I propose the dinky idea in jest (not RussNelson). And people think it's great. Oh well, engineering through wetlands would still be easier than engineering through the opposition in Montco, as long as you aren't relying on federal money. Do the wetlands stretch all the way to the baseball field, R3? I assume you know the area because I couldn't tell they were wetlands.
I would actually support a trolley service for this that loops at Bethayres and loops at the other end on street running in Newtown with express running on the private ROW of the former Newtown line. Build the maintenance facilities at the end of the trail, thus giving it a destination to somewhere. :-P
Bethayres isn't a destination? How dare you, R3, how dare you?
scotty269 wrote:
Clearfield wrote:
scotty269 wrote:Dinky service, eh? I like that concept. Let's all send emails to the CMSL and ask if they're interested in running a set of RDC cars for the new dinky.
CMSL can't even get Cape May service up and running.
Sarcasm.... :wink:
Sure, but SEPTA can't get Wawa service up and running. Why not RDCs? I'm going with the two negatives make a positive here. Although I wouldn't mind electrifying it in case the other half of the line does come back. And I keep wanting to crush your avatar, Scotty.
  by Pacobell73
 
MikeBPRR wrote: And I keep wanting to crush your avatar, Scotty.
Seriously! :-) I cannot tell you how many times I smacked the monitor thinking I squashed that gnat!
  by Pacobell73
 
R3 Passenger wrote:I like the idea too, but then you gotta worry about the nearby wetlands with that too. There would need to be an entirely new connection engineered for that. I'm not sure how you could go about that.
Actually, the wetlands is not a major obstacle; just another farce put forth by SEPTA and MontCo.
http://www.dep.state.pa.us/dep/deputate ... EPLFD1.htmIf SEPTA and the counties were truly serious about connecting the R8 with the R3 at Bethayres, they would have to replace the wetlands via the PENNSYLVANIA WETLAND REPLACEMENT PROJECT. Permit recipients assume the responsibility for providing replacement wetlands as a special condition of the permit. The goal of wetlands replacement is to provide a wetland which replicates and provides the same functions and values as the wetland which was lost. Now, that "assume the responsibility" part has never been SEPTA's strong point. They have forbid any entity whatsoever from getting near the Newtown line for fear of liability. There is no way they would come close to assuming responsibility for replacing a wetland.

So it can be done. Just the wrong entity at work here.
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