Restoration of Regional Rail

[ewonder]

I live in Yardley, Pa. At what point will SEPTA restart service on the lines that have been suspended due to the Covid pandemic? What measures will Septa need to have in place to make sure trains are sanitized properly? Hope it restarts sooner rather than later...

[R3 Passenger]

I live in Yardley, Pa. At what point will SEPTA restart service on the lines that have been suspended due to the Covid pandemic? What measures will Septa need to have in place to make sure trains are sanitized properly? Hope it restarts sooner rather than later...

Regional Rail returns to an Enhanced Saturday Schedule on June 28.

All the information can be found on SEPTA's Reopening Guide

[rcthompson04]

West Trenton resumes tomorrow with service extended from Malvern to Thorndale on the Paoli Thorndale Line.

Service will be extended from Lansdale to Doylestown the following week with all service except Chestnut Hill West and Cynwyd June 28.

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone: With the PA suburban counties now in the green category (The City of Philadelphia
will stagger reopening over two weeks into and after the July 4th holiday - a Saturday)
SEPTA Regional Rail is issuing new schedules and reopening some ticket offices outside of
CCP for the first time in just over three months - in time for July monthly pass sales.

http://septa.org/covid-19/index.html

Ticket offices reopening by line are:
RDG Trunk: Wayne Junction, Jenkintown.
CHE: Chestnut Hill East, Stenton
FXC: Cheltenham
LAN: Lansdale, Fort Washington
NOR: Norristown TC (DeKalb Street), East Falls
WAR: Warminster, Willow Grove, Roslyn
WTR: Langhorne, Bethayres

MED: Media, Primos, Lansdowne
PAO: Strafford, Bryn Mawr, Overbrook
TRE: Holmesburg Junction, Cornwells Heights, Levittown
WIL: Marcus Hook, Prospect Park, Folcroft

The Chestnut Hill West and Cynwyd Lines will remain shut down.

The June 28 schedules can be found here:
http://septa.org/service/rail/midday-sc ... #schedules

Friday July 3 will be a weekday schedule.
Saturday July 4 will be a Saturday schedule.

In a regular year July and August ridership drops off normally upwards of 10%
accounting for Summer vacation season the largest factor - but with the ridership loss
over the Spring huge it is going to be well into Fall 2020 until any substantial portion
of ridership returns to RRD depending on the course of recovery from the pandemic.

These changes are a good sign that at least some normalcy is returning to the RRD.
MACTRAXX

[rcthompson04]

Chestnut Hill West suspension... is this the first line to be cut after the Cynwyd toy train if deep cuts happen long term? I am sure Amtrak wouldn't mind.

I have been checking out the Regional Rail lots if I am out driving around. Exton had a handful of cars last week while Malvern appears to be getting at least Sunday volumes.

[MACTRAXX]

Chestnut Hill West suspension... is this the first line to be cut after the Cynwyd toy train if deep cuts happen long term? I am sure Amtrak wouldn't mind.

I have been checking out the Regional Rail lots if I am out driving around. Exton had a handful of cars last week while Malvern appears to be getting at least Sunday volumes.

RCT: The two Chestnut Hill lines were constructed as a "competition"
between the PRR and RDG a century or so ago. With eventual unification
of the commuter railroads first under Conrail operation and than with
the Center City Tunnel opening in November 1984 the two lines have
become redundant. CHE has the advantage of SEPTA control instead
of having to use the Amtrak NEC for part of its route as CHW has to.

Building the Swampoodle connection to get CHW trains into the RDG
trunk line may be finally the way to save this route. Another proposal
was to turn the line into either light rail or a BSL extension.

Regional Rail Lines with low and weak ridership during any recovery
period are the most likely to be cut under any funding shortage
especially if there are reasonable alternatives available.
This is the case for both Cynwyd and Chestnut Hill West.

Checking RRD parking lots is going to be a good way to get an idea
how much of a percentage is coming back to commuter rail.

With any given station having an idea how full a parking lot was on a
regular weekday will help in finding out to some extent how much
of a ridership loss that the station has had...MACTRAXX

[penncenter]

Swampoodle connector? Now we're really reachin!"

The only chance that had of ever getting done was in the very best of times. This is not that time. I mean, its great to have this elaborate regional rail system, with the ability to snake its way through communities...but CH is over served as it is. The CHW line may be my most favorite on the system. I think its great to ride on the NEC for a bit. But Amtrak doesn't want it. The ridership is not that great, and for riders, although it is not as easy to ride the CHE as the CHW if you live on that side of CH, is it really a big deal to go to the nearest CHE station? An inconvenience, yes, but you still have good service. In most communities, you'll need to drive to the station; not the biggest deal.

Swampoodle is a neat idea, but I doubt it will ever happen. Nice try though MACC!

The Amtrak hassles are real, and the CHW's days are numbered.

A handful of favored and connected rich guys kept the Cynwyd line going. That'll be history. CHW is next to go.

Question is; what's the next to go? Does the Norristown line get much ridership?

[CNJGeep]

The Amtrak hassles are real, and the CHW's days are numbered.

A handful of favored and connected rich guys kept the Cynwyd line going. That'll be history. CHW is next to go.

Question is; what's the next to go? Does the Norristown line get much ridership?

No lines are being terminated. This is not the Septa of the 80s. They had plenty of chance to close these lines down. Remember, during their presentation some years ago prior to Act 89, Cynwyd and Chestnut Hill West were specifically mentioned as the first two lines that would be eliminated.

As I'm sure you've noticed, SEPTA isn't in the habit of backing a loser, and if they wanted to kill those lines off, the recent construction that they've done to regrade access to Cynwyd-bypassing the 52nd Street Flyover-and to Chestnut Hill West-major bridge work and track rehabilitation-would seem to fly in the face of them wanting to suspend or eliminate service on those lines.

Remember, the Chestnut Hill Branches don't just have stations in Chestnut Hill. All the neighborhood stations on the way down see significant ridership on both branches during peak hours. It's not like these branches are a block apart either. The closest they get to each other is prior to Chestnut Hill is at Germantown (East)/ Chelten Ave (West), and even that is a reasonable hike of about half a mile. If the Hill West were to be suspended, it would constrain mightily the Hill East Branch, not to mention reduce significantly access to neighborhoods between North Philly and St. Martins.

As for access and Amtrak, it is a chore crossing over the entire railroad at Lehigh at slow speed. This, however, could very easily be rectified by Amtrak and SEPTA working together to install a simple 1-4 Limited-Speed interlocking west of Lehigh and East of Mantua. Trains would still be crossing all the way over, but could do it much faster and without the risk of a positive stop penalty at Lehigh, which has been an ongoing issue.

Both Cynwyd and Hill West will be back soon. The trains are programmed, they're just not running yet due to construction on both lines.

[penncenter]

CNJ,

Hope you are right. Unfortunately, issues like the virus are many times considered an opportunity, and used everyday to do things an organization could not get away with during normal times.

The bridge work is interesting, although in CH, if bridges are so bad they need to be addressed, they'd need to be addressed anyway, as they would be deemed dangerous, and you can't have a dangerous structure in a residential neighborhood. Last thing SEPTA would need is a bridge collapsing onto a car at some point.

As for the ridership, wouldn't be the first time ridership has been sacrificed. And is it really that much to justify an entire line?

Numbers are the reality check in all this. I would hate to see CHW go.

Regarding the Speed Interlocking to help crossover on the NEC. Amtrak will do nothing to make it easier for SEPTA to traverse the NEC. They will have zero interest in installing anything, and disrupting their already clogged service, for a dink commuter train that they want gone anyway.

Just my take.

[rcthompson04]

Some updates on returning to service:

https://www.inquirer.com/transportation ... 00629.html

One highlight is a doubling of ridership over the last few weeks (16 to 36 people per train on average).

It looks like the Silverliner Vs are rolling again. SEPTA seems to be running large consists of 6 EMUs. Wonder if the push pull equipment runs a little with these longer consists being the norm.

[JeffK]

Question is; what's the next to go? Does the Norristown line get much ridership?

SEPTA's 2018 ridership statistics (probably not changed much in 2019, I would assume) show a weekday ridership of ~10,500 which puts it right in the middle of all RRD lines. Interestingly, that number is within epsilon of the daily average for the NHSL/P&W.

Given that the two routes serve widely-separated communities after leaving Norristown, it's doubtful SEPTA would or could simply tell everyone on the M-N line they had to switch to the NHSL.

[MACTRAXX]

Everyone: With new RRD weekday schedules effective today 6/29 it will be interesting
to take note on how ridership returns to Regional Rail. This time of year - with July 4th
only 6 days away - is not the time to accurately measure passenger count comparisons
during what would be prime vacation season normally.

CNJ: I agree with you - the SEPTA of today is definitely not the SEPTA of the 1980s.
That decade can be divided directly in half - 1980 to 1984 are what I consider to be
the "bad old days" of declining and deteriorating service -Regional Rail ridership
"bottomed out" in 1984 to its lowest point. Beginning in 1985 after the Center City
Tunnel operations were fully established ridership began a steady increase that
would last for many years along with "continuous improvement" overall to 1989
and beyond. One example: The push-pull trains going into service in 1987.

You bring up a good point - both Chestnut Hill lines have their own clientele and
since both are entirely within the City of Philadelphia they have had City support.

The Chestnut Hill West Line has undergone trackwork with welded rail and new
catenary wire among improvements. The best single example of keeping commitment
to the CHW line was the full replacement of the Cresheim Valley viaduct.

MACTRAXX

[MACTRAXX]

[quote=penncenter post_id=1546599 time=1593307933 user_id=28863]
Swampoodle connector? Now we're really reachin!"

The only chance that had of ever getting done was in the very best of times. This is not that time. I mean, its great to have this elaborate regional rail system, with the ability to snake its way through communities...but CH is over served as it is. The CHW line may be my most favorite on the system. I think its great to ride on the NEC for a bit. But Amtrak doesn't want it. The ridership is not that great, and for riders, although it is not as easy to ride tuuhe CHE as the CHW if you live on that side of CH, is it really a big deal to go to the nearest CHE station? An inconvenience, yes, but you still have good service. In most communities, you'll need to drive to the station; not the biggest deal.

Swampoodle is a neat idea, but I doubt it will ever happen. Nice try though MACC!

The Amtrak hassles are real, and the CHW's days are numbered.

A handful of favored and connected rich guys kept the Cynwyd line going. That'll be history. CHW is next to go.

Question is; what's the next to go? Does the Norristown line get much ridership?
[/quote] PC: I brought up the long - debated (here and elsewhere) CHW
"Swampoodle Connection" in reply to any thoughts of a permanent
closure of all of part of the CHW Line to get trains off of the Amtrak NEC.

The working relationship between SEPTA and Amtrak is key.
If you look back in the SEPTA Forum archives you can see for yourself
the interesting past discussions concerning the SC topic.

Upgrading infrastructure such as the truss bridge over the former RDG
trunk line (Bridge 0.39?) was one of the most urgent upgrades needed.

The Manayunk-Norristown Line has again its own distinct clientele that
use the line. In recent years (since 2000) two examples are the building
boom along with growth in Conshohocken and the upscale Manayunk
Main Street area served by the nearby Manayunk Station.

I am all for "continuous improvement" and for that matter I hope that
it never comes down to having to decide to close lines because of the
lack of ridership or funding as in the "bad old days" of the first half of
the 1980s. In reply I say "never go back!!!" MACTRAXX

[rcthompson04]

Push pull equipment has been running from photos I have seen. One set is running to Trenton and back.