• SEPTA to get multi-level railroad coaches

  • Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.
Discussion relating to Southeastern Pennsylvania Transportation Authority (Philadelphia Metro Area). Official web site can be found here: www.septa.com. Also including discussion related to the PATCO Speedline rapid transit operated by Delaware River Port Authority. Official web site can be found here: http://www.ridepatco.org/.

Moderator: AlexC

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  by R3 Passenger
 
Sorry to bump this topic, but I heard a rumor this morning that something happened with the CRRC order. I went back to the OP of this topic to look at the date on the article, but the article is no more.

Given that the article was posted more than a year ago, shouldn't there be some kind of mock-up that SEPTA would be parading around while the factory is tooling up stateside to meet the 2020 deadline? I find the silence odd given all the fanfare around the Silverliner 5 manufacturing years ago.

Does anybody know anything else?
  by mcgrath618
 
R3 Passenger wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:40 pm Sorry to bump this topic, but I heard a rumor this morning that something happened with the CRRC order. I went back to the OP of this topic to look at the date on the article, but the article is no more.

Given that the article was posted more than a year ago, shouldn't there be some kind of mock-up that SEPTA would be parading around while the factory is tooling up stateside to meet the 2020 deadline? I find the silence odd given all the fanfare around the Silverliner 5 manufacturing years ago.

Does anybody know anything else?
What do you mean, "something happened?"
  by R3 Passenger
 
mcgrath618 wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:23 pm
R3 Passenger wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:40 pm Sorry to bump this topic, but I heard a rumor this morning that something happened with the CRRC order. I went back to the OP of this topic to look at the date on the article, but the article is no more.

Given that the article was posted more than a year ago, shouldn't there be some kind of mock-up that SEPTA would be parading around while the factory is tooling up stateside to meet the 2020 deadline? I find the silence odd given all the fanfare around the Silverliner 5 manufacturing years ago.

Does anybody know anything else?
What do you mean, "something happened?"
What I mean is that I overheard a conversation between SEPTA personnel talking about the order for new cars as though it is not happening. Not getting any more specific than that in case I overheard more than the public should currently know.
  by CNJGeep
 
There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation, or more likely combination of information going on here.

The CRRC cars are NOT MU cars, they will not be Silverliners. They are push-pull coaches, the same way the Bombardier coaches are now. They will supplant those cars in additional express service.

I have heard rumors of the order being cancelled, but if they were true, why did a cab mock up get delivered to a SEPTA facility for evaluation recently?

The double-decker MU order is SUPPOSED to be an option for the NJT Multilevel order from Bombardier, to be delivered after NJT gets theirs. There has been very little movement on this front because a funding source has not been identified.

Cliff Notes Version: Chinese Cars, still coming as of this very instant. Not Silverliners, not MUs.
  by mcgrath618
 
CNJGeep wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:08 pm There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation, or more likely combination of information going on here.

The CRRC cars are NOT MU cars, they will not be Silverliners. They are push-pull coaches, the same way the Bombardier coaches are now. They will supplant those cars in additional express service.

I have heard rumors of the order being cancelled, but if they were true, why did a cab mock up get delivered to a SEPTA facility for evaluation recently?

The double-decker MU order is SUPPOSED to be an option for the NJT Multilevel order from Bombardier, to be delivered after NJT gets theirs. There has been very little movement on this front because a funding source has not been identified.

Cliff Notes Version: Chinese Cars, still coming as of this very instant. Not Silverliners, not MUs.
Why would it be cancelled? SEPTA got their money back.
  by JeffK
 
mcgrath618 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:53 amWhy would it be cancelled? SEPTA got their money back.
I haven’t heard anything to that effect, but there've been a lot of anti-CRCC rumblings at the federal level. Aside from the usual issue of the Chinese government offering subsidies to underbid competitors, there are worries about them using their US facilities for espionage (see: Huawei). How much of this is real and how much is Trumpian bluster? No idea.
  by rcthompson04
 
JeffK wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 8:39 am
mcgrath618 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 7:53 amWhy would it be cancelled? SEPTA got their money back.
I haven’t heard anything to that effect, but there've been a lot of anti-CRCC rumblings at the federal level. Aside from the usual issue of the Chinese government offering subsidies to underbid competitors, there are worries about them using their US facilities for espionage (see: Huawei). How much of this is real and how much is Trumpian bluster? No idea.
I will make sure to wear tin foil when I ride these cars if they ever enter into service. :wink:
  by sammy2009
 
CNJGeep wrote: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:08 pm There seems to be quite a bit of misinformation, or more likely combination of information going on here.

The CRRC cars are NOT MU cars, they will not be Silverliners. They are push-pull coaches, the same way the Bombardier coaches are now. They will supplant those cars in additional express service.

I have heard rumors of the order being cancelled, but if they were true, why did a cab mock up get delivered to a SEPTA facility for evaluation recently?

The double-decker MU order is SUPPOSED to be an option for the NJT Multilevel order from Bombardier, to be delivered after NJT gets theirs. There has been very little movement on this front because a funding source has not been identified.

Cliff Notes Version: Chinese Cars, still coming as of this very instant. Not Silverliners, not MUs.
Hmmm delivery of a mock-up ...now that sounds exciting. How recent was the delivery ? I think a Silverliner 6 order is in the air and in the cards but funding ofcourse is a issue.
  by JeffK
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:28 amI will make sure to wear tin foil when I ride these cars if they ever enter into service. :wink:
I've had good luck with both Reynolds Wrap and Alcoa. Wegmans and WalMart house brands will work in a pinch thought :P

But seriously, I think the concerns expressed are as much about industrial spying via the manufacturing facilities as anything being installed in the cars themselves. 99% of passengers' e-activity would be pretty banal. The ROI from snooping would be pretty low. Given the amount of grandstanding, exaggeration, and just plain paranoia coming out of DC re trade issues my 2¢ goes on the tin foil side.

That said, the issue of the Chinese government using subsidies to tilt the scale probably has some foundation. Two differing takes on the issue:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SM2UY
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... 3c1a25afb4
  by CNJGeep
 
sammy2009 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:52 pm
Hmmm delivery of a mock-up ...now that sounds exciting. How recent was the delivery ? I think a Silverliner 6 order is in the air and in the cards but funding ofcourse is a issue.
CAB mock-up, not the whole car. It came about a month ago, and may already be on the way back. I haven't laid eyes on it recently.
  by rcthompson04
 
JeffK wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:19 pm
rcthompson04 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 10:28 amI will make sure to wear tin foil when I ride these cars if they ever enter into service. :wink:
I've had good luck with both Reynolds Wrap and Alcoa. Wegmans and WalMart house brands will work in a pinch thought :P

But seriously, I think the concerns expressed are as much about industrial spying via the manufacturing facilities as anything being installed in the cars themselves. 99% of passengers' e-activity would be pretty banal. The ROI from snooping would be pretty low. Given the amount of grandstanding, exaggeration, and just plain paranoia coming out of DC re trade issues my 2¢ goes on the tin foil side.

That said, the issue of the Chinese government using subsidies to tilt the scale probably has some foundation. Two differing takes on the issue:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKCN1SM2UY
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... 3c1a25afb4
Correct. The subsidies would be the real issue. My take on that is have more commuter rail if you want more Americans building it.
  by R36 Combine Coach
 
rcthompson04 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:31 pmMy take on that is have more commuter rail if you want more Americans building it.
Make America Build Again: instead of funding assembly plants that are subsidiaries of foreign companies with Buy America Act guidelines, put bigger investments in domestic companies that could invest in such capabilities. Pullman, Budd and St. Louis once exported their cars over the world too.
  by JeffK
 
R36 Combine Coach wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:45 pm
rcthompson04 wrote: Thu Jun 20, 2019 4:31 pmMy take on that is have more commuter rail if you want more Americans building it.
Make America Build Again: instead of funding assembly plants that are subsidiaries of foreign companies with Buy America Act guidelines, put bigger investments in domestic companies that could invest in such capabilities. Pullman, Budd and St. Louis once exported their cars over the world too.
AMEN!!
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