Reading, Newtown, Quakertown restoration

[25Hz]

The newtown line would need the diamond put back across the west trenton line near bethayres. I see that, as well as embankment repair and bridge modernization/replacement as the biggest impediment to newtown re-activation. The wires/electrification would be expensive, yes, but fairly straightforward, the most difficult thing would be substation location & construction. I suspect some of the substations may be a bit far from the ROW since it was not built with electrification in mind.

All the small lots that were station parking/kiss&ride areas would need to be fixed up and signs erected including signs pointing towards the station. i'd like to see medium length high platforms good for 2 car boarding. As well all the crossing gates would have to be put back, and the signals tied in to the fox chase line and west trenton line (diamond). It would be cool if they could connect the newtown & west trenton line, but i dunno if that's even possible as the area where the tracks cross is in the middle of the woods & may be prohibitive from an environmental impact standpoint.

But in any case, the traffic around here has been at nightmare levels for years, we really need the line up and running, with shuttle busses serving park and ride lots strategically located.

[glennk419]

the most difficult thing would be substation location & construction. I suspect some of the substations may be a bit far from the ROW since it was not built with electrification in mind.

None of the ex-Reading lines were built with electrification in mind when they constructed by the P&R or other predecessor railroads. The original electrification was put in place based on ridership and traffic density. Remember that the Fox Chase branch was not electrified until 1967 (sans substation) and the Warminster line not extended until the early 70's. A substation could easily be built mid-line in the Southampton area. The bigger issue might be the currently constrained power capacity on the Reading side although the number of trains running on the line would probably result in a nominal increase in power draw except at rush hour.

[nickrapak]

If you were building a substation along the Newtown line, the best place to put it would be in Huntingdon Valley, right where the NS Morrisville line crosses above. The high-voltege lines there are 25Hz from Safe Harbor, so Amtrak willing, you could put a phase break at Fox Chase (or Bethayres, north of the wire diamond) and run the northern part with smaller catenary structures, since there's no need to feed 25hz from Wayne Junction.

[25Hz]

If you were building a substation along the Newtown line, the best place to put it would be in Huntingdon Valley, right where the NS Morrisville line crosses above. The high-voltege lines there are 25Hz from Safe Harbor, so Amtrak willing, you could put a phase break at Fox Chase (or Bethayres, north of the wire diamond) and run the northern part with smaller catenary structures, since there's no need to feed 25hz from Wayne Junction.

You know, that's actually a really good idea. Would save money on build out since it wouldn't need the distribution feeders.

[BuddCar711]

The newtown line would need the diamond put back across the west trenton line near bethayres.

Why not build a bridge to go over the R3 instead of a diamond?

[limejuice]

If you were building a substation along the Newtown line, the best place to put it would be in Huntingdon Valley, right where the NS Morrisville line crosses above. The high-voltege lines there are 25Hz from Safe Harbor, so Amtrak willing, you could put a phase break at Fox Chase (or Bethayres, north of the wire diamond) and run the northern part with smaller catenary structures, since there's no need to feed 25hz from Wayne Junction.

Pretty sure those lines are 60Hz 230KV Delta and belong to PECO. The 25Hz single phase transmission lines disappeared when NS cut down the cat poles. The active lines from Safe Harbor come off the Morrisville line at the Schuylkill river and follow the former PRR Schuylkill division down into Zoo substation. Really thoughtful suggestion though.

For service reliability, the best place for a substation on the Newtown branch would be nearest to Newtown, say next to the bypass to avoid such a footprint in town. One of the 1991 proposals was to run the 24KV feeder up to Woodbourne and up the PECO RoW to Newtown in order to reduce the visual blight of the poles going through Bryn Athyn. Endpoint substations are ideal, but not imperative. I would think Bethayres and Wayne could sufficiently handle the load of the Newtown line. The Airport line's been doing just fine without one for 30 years. The West Chester line never had one south of Lenni.

[glennk419]

If you were building a substation along the Newtown line, the best place to put it would be in Huntingdon Valley, right where the NS Morrisville line crosses above. The high-voltege lines there are 25Hz from Safe Harbor, so Amtrak willing, you could put a phase break at Fox Chase (or Bethayres, north of the wire diamond) and run the northern part with smaller catenary structures, since there's no need to feed 25hz from Wayne Junction.

Pretty sure those lines are 60Hz 230KV Delta and belong to PECO. The 25Hz single phase transmission lines disappeared when NS cut down the cat poles. The active lines from Safe Harbor come off the Morrisville line at the Schuylkill river and follow the former PRR Schuylkill division down into Zoo substation. Really thoughtful suggestion though.

For service reliability, the best place for a substation on the Newtown branch would be nearest to Newtown, say next to the bypass to avoid such a footprint in town. One of the 1991 proposals was to run the 24KV feeder up to Woodbourne and up the PECO RoW to Newtown in order to reduce the visual blight of the poles going through Bryn Athyn. Endpoint substations are ideal, but not imperative. I would think Bethayres and Wayne could sufficiently handle the load of the Newtown line. The Airport line's been doing just fine without one for 30 years. The West Chester line never had one south of Lenni.

Yes, the existing lines along the NS ROW in question run to/from the PECO substation at Willow Grove. Now if we could just convert everything to 25KV 60 Hz.......

[Clearfield]

Now if we could just convert everything to 25KV 60 Hz.......

I agree. Do you have ANY idea what that would entail? LOL!

[glennk419]

Now if we could just convert everything to 25KV 60 Hz.......

I agree. Do you have ANY idea what that would entail? LOL!

Um, yeah. About the ONLY things potentially compatible are the EMU's and loco's themselves (can't the SL-V's switch on the fly?). EVERYTHING else except the catenary would need to be replaced or upgraded.

But the bright side is that we'd get a new substation in Doylestown.

[25Hz]

The newtown line would need the diamond put back across the west trenton line near bethayres.

Why not build a bridge to go over the R3 instead of a diamond?

The embankment etc is still mostly there, would be cheaper to simply have the diamond. However a bridge would allow for trains to move at faster speeds and not have potential conflicts, so it would be worth the extra bucks. The question is, would they get the bucks?

[glennk419]

The newtown line would need the diamond put back across the west trenton line near bethayres.

Why not build a bridge to go over the R3 instead of a diamond?

The embankment etc is still mostly there, would be cheaper to simply have the diamond. However a bridge would allow for trains to move at faster speeds and not have potential conflicts, so it would be worth the extra bucks. The question is, would they get the bucks?

Given the Huntingdon Pike overpass and curves on the ROW just to the east of the crossing, as well as wetlands issues, there would not be adequate room for the ramp to an overgrade crossing.

[limejuice]

Now if we could just convert everything to 25KV 60 Hz.......

I agree. Do you have ANY idea what that would entail? LOL!

For one thing, all catenary suspension insulators would need to be replaced with longer ones, bringing the clearance in the tunnel down several inches. Not sure there's that much leeway with present equipment. 25Hz ain't leaving the neighborhood anytime soon.

[limejuice]

Given the Huntingdon Pike overpass and curves on the ROW just to the east of the crossing, as well as wetlands issues, there would not be adequate room for the ramp to an overgrade crossing.

Or we could just hire Moller to build a flying RDC which would take off at Shady Lane and land at Byberry. Added bonus of eliminating the tighter curves. Ba-BAM!

[glennk419]

Isn't the ex-NYNH&H between NYP and New Haven 12 Kv 60 Hz? That would at least temper the insulator issue but transformers, circuit breakers, etc would still need to be replaced. I think I read somewhere else that the signal overlay frequency would still be OK at 60 Hz. I know that we're starting to wander O/T but it's still a valid "what if" for restoration and expansion if it involved electrification.

[25Hz]

I was just looking at the crossing area on google earth. There isn't enough space to put a bridge with an acceptable grade. It would be a massive project to lower the ROW enough far enough back etc etc. You could put the bridge piers on the existing right of way through the wetlands, but to the south there's just no room without the huge project. Diamond is way cheaper.