That is true about the old Rockland Coaches not going north of Westwood. Anyway the NJT bus route ending in Westwood offers a lot more service than the train.
Railroad Forums
Moderators: lensovet, Kaback9, nick11a
CPSK wrote:What is the possibility that the passing siding in Oradell will be built?The only thing that will get the Oradell siding built is the completion of the Secaucus Loop if the Loop ever happens. Direct train to NYP without transfer is the only thing that can cause enough increase in ridership to justify it. The other one is demands for more service by Metro-North, but even if Metro-North wants to pay for the siding politics of "why are you building this here if it does not benefit NJ commuters" type will prevent that from happening.
CPSK wrote:I do have to agree on the elevators at Secaucus. Why weren't more elevators designed into the original station? It makes good sense to have ones that would go from the upper to the lower track levels.This seems the likely reason for the elevators.
Could it have to do with the ticketing system? The gated access to the upper level tracks was a bone-headed idea. If one purchases a ticked from a point on the Bergen County Line to NYP, why does this passenger need to pass through the gates on the upper level? The conductors read and punch the tickets on each train, right? What is the real purpose of the gates? To prevent unticketed or improperly ticketed passengers from riding trains? If that's the purpose, then why don't they need gates at Metro North stations?
The conductor will simply require a passenger to purchase a ticket or ticket upgrade on the train - adding whatever surcharge is in effect to the fare.
andrewjw wrote: This seems the likely reason for the elevators.That makes sense. I hadn't realized that tickets were non-directional. I don't ride NJT (trains) all that much; mostly Metro North, and their tickets are definitely directional.
So many peak trains from NYP to SEC are so crowded that it would be very impractical to check tickets before SEC. Even on a less crowded train, the conductors often don't make it through before SEC. Without the barriers, someone could buy tickets from somewhere on the Erie or PVL to HOB, and one-ways from SEC to NYP that would be punched only occasionally. Or worse, they could buy tickets from Suffern to NYP, have them punched 'first half' inbound to SEC, then give that ticket back for 'second half' on the outbound from SEC - remember that tickets are valid for travel in either direction - and carry SEC to NYP tickets for the conductor if they ever came through.
CPSK wrote:CPSK: I could not disagree with you more on the subject of physical tickets. I would much ratherandrewjw wrote: This seems the likely reason for the elevators.That makes sense. I hadn't realized that tickets were non-directional. I don't ride NJT (trains) all that much; mostly Metro North, and their tickets are definitely directional.
So many peak trains from NYP to SEC are so crowded that it would be very impractical to check tickets before SEC. Even on a less crowded train, the conductors often don't make it through before SEC. Without the barriers, someone could buy tickets from somewhere on the Erie or PVL to HOB, and one-ways from SEC to NYP that would be punched only occasionally. Or worse, they could buy tickets from Suffern to NYP, have them punched 'first half' inbound to SEC, then give that ticket back for 'second half' on the outbound from SEC - remember that tickets are valid for travel in either direction - and carry SEC to NYP tickets for the conductor if they ever came through.
I have ridden LIRR to/from NY Mets games, and sometimes the conductor didn't get around before the train reached its destination. But at least on the inbound trip, there is always someone checking tickets at the gate as you enter the station from the stadium walkway.
I'm curious as to when physical tickets will "go away". The whole concept of printing and checking tickets seems seriously outdated in today's world of smartphones, RFID, and other technologies that can make physical ticketing obsolete.
I do understand that such a sophisticated system would be much more complex on routes like NJT, Metro North, LIRR, and Amtrak as compared to the NYC subway where there is only one fare.
I think that RFID could work very well. Just install the RFID readers in every car on every train. Unfortunately though, this might leave a lot of train conductors out of work
lensovet wrote:NJT already has mobile ticketing. Those tickets never expire and you can't lose them.I am aware of mobile ticketing. What I had in mind to replace physical tickets is something akin to the EZ-Pass system, where no one needs to read the ticket. A fare would be collected from a passenger's account based on where he/she entered the first train, to where he/she left the last train, with tracking at transfer stations like Secaucus. This system would also include buses and light-rail.
CPSK wrote:This article https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/nyre ... -york.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, says that the MTA will be replacing the MetroCard with the type of system used in London.That's not how it works in London - or in the Bay Area, or currently in-progress Philly and Boston implementations. The standard is that outlying stations have readers on the platforms, but no gates. Only center stations (NY, HOB, SEC, EWR, NP, NB) would get fare gates. If you only hit at one end of the trip, you'd be billed the max zone from that station.
I suppose that type of system works best for single-fare routes, but might get pretty costly for multi-fare lines like NJT. They would need gates at every station, and one would need to scan their e-ticket when entering and leaving the system.
andrewjw wrote:yep. this conveniently also automatically gives you correct fare for transfers between modes/agencies, etc.CPSK wrote:This article https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/23/nyre ... -york.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, says that the MTA will be replacing the MetroCard with the type of system used in London.That's not how it works in London - or in the Bay Area, or currently in-progress Philly and Boston implementations. The standard is that outlying stations have readers on the platforms, but no gates. Only center stations (NY, HOB, SEC, EWR, NP, NB) would get fare gates. If you only hit at one end of the trip, you'd be billed the max zone from that station.
I suppose that type of system works best for single-fare routes, but might get pretty costly for multi-fare lines like NJT. They would need gates at every station, and one would need to scan their e-ticket when entering and leaving the system.